1 00:00:05,570 --> 00:00:04,070 alright it looks like we are live now on 2 00:00:07,730 --> 00:00:05,580 Facebook and YouTube 3 00:00:10,490 --> 00:00:07,740 welcome everybody to somewhere in the 4 00:00:12,499 --> 00:00:10,500 skies we are doing a livestream tonight 5 00:00:14,780 --> 00:00:12,509 with our guest who you're gonna hear 6 00:00:16,460 --> 00:00:14,790 from in just a moment but I want to let 7 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:16,470 everyone know if you're watching this on 8 00:00:19,820 --> 00:00:17,250 Facebook 9 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:19,830 I did put a link in the comments section 10 00:00:23,509 --> 00:00:21,570 there you just have to allow stream yard 11 00:00:25,730 --> 00:00:23,519 the service that we string through to 12 00:00:27,769 --> 00:00:25,740 see your comments they make their way 13 00:00:29,419 --> 00:00:27,779 into a feed I have here and then I can 14 00:00:31,009 --> 00:00:29,429 see your questions so we're gonna be 15 00:00:31,730 --> 00:00:31,019 taking questions later in the show with 16 00:00:33,620 --> 00:00:31,740 our guests 17 00:00:36,290 --> 00:00:33,630 and if you're on YouTube all the 18 00:00:37,910 --> 00:00:36,300 comments are on the right-hand side 19 00:00:40,250 --> 00:00:37,920 there you'll see if you're streaming 20 00:00:42,830 --> 00:00:40,260 from YouTube so welcome everyone to 21 00:00:45,650 --> 00:00:42,840 somewhere in the skies and welcome to 22 00:00:48,350 --> 00:00:45,660 our guest author and journalist Mike 23 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:48,360 Demonte how's it going buddy good our 24 00:00:51,170 --> 00:00:49,770 great to see you it's always good to be 25 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:51,180 on the show and just just talk to you 26 00:00:56,930 --> 00:00:53,730 yes yes you'll get to do this in person 27 00:00:57,680 --> 00:00:56,940 I know someday someday we will make it 28 00:01:00,799 --> 00:00:57,690 happen 29 00:01:02,569 --> 00:01:00,809 we did have you on the show not wheat we 30 00:01:05,119 --> 00:01:02,579 had you I should say on the show not too 31 00:01:07,460 --> 00:01:05,129 long ago this is right when the pandemic 32 00:01:09,620 --> 00:01:07,470 had sort of started I think but a lot 33 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:09,630 has happened since then so I kind of 34 00:01:12,859 --> 00:01:11,610 wanted to catch up with you before we 35 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:12,869 even talk about why you're really here 36 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:14,970 to talk about your new book stranger 37 00:01:19,789 --> 00:01:17,610 than fiction your thoughts on everything 38 00:01:23,330 --> 00:01:19,799 going on in the UFO world right now I 39 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:23,340 mean we've got the official release of 40 00:01:27,890 --> 00:01:25,650 the Navy videos from the DoD I don't 41 00:01:30,710 --> 00:01:27,900 think that it hit before we left spoke 42 00:01:32,870 --> 00:01:30,720 so yeah where do you stand on this man 43 00:01:35,060 --> 00:01:32,880 the DoD finally acknowledging these 44 00:01:36,410 --> 00:01:35,070 videos that we've been debating for 45 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:36,420 almost 40 years now 46 00:01:41,719 --> 00:01:39,450 I forgot MIT's missed yesterday when I 47 00:01:43,399 --> 00:01:41,729 was on dinner deeper now Andrew someone 48 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:43,409 mentioned a friend who was exactly but 49 00:01:48,230 --> 00:01:45,210 they said like what if this was that was 50 00:01:50,270 --> 00:01:48,240 home that were supposed to get is that 51 00:01:51,710 --> 00:01:50,280 is that enough and I was like honestly 52 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:51,720 if you look at a face value you I mean 53 00:01:54,289 --> 00:01:52,890 it should be the fact that they're 54 00:01:55,700 --> 00:01:54,299 admitting they're basically admitting 55 00:01:58,670 --> 00:01:55,710 that not only the videos are real but 56 00:02:00,380 --> 00:01:58,680 the phenomenon itself is real I mean 57 00:02:00,940 --> 00:02:00,390 we've had we never seen anything like 58 00:02:07,100 --> 00:02:00,950 that 59 00:02:09,020 --> 00:02:07,110 know we were getting from to the stars 60 00:02:11,059 --> 00:02:09,030 or the Pentagon or whatever 61 00:02:12,110 --> 00:02:11,069 so be I think that's great you know 62 00:02:14,090 --> 00:02:12,120 that's all it is 63 00:02:15,980 --> 00:02:14,100 I think it's historic you know but I 64 00:02:17,780 --> 00:02:15,990 know people who always want more but I 65 00:02:19,130 --> 00:02:17,790 think you know especially that the week 66 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:19,140 II came out to do I didn't go 67 00:02:24,199 --> 00:02:22,170 strategically happened during Kovan 68 00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:24,209 because they wanted it to be buried and 69 00:02:29,710 --> 00:02:25,650 it kind of backfired because it was a 70 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:29,720 big story surprise really it really took 71 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:35,130 to control of a lot of the outlets and 72 00:02:40,850 --> 00:02:38,370 the media so yeah that was I was crazy I 73 00:02:42,890 --> 00:02:40,860 kind of backfired on the Pentagon it was 74 00:02:45,770 --> 00:02:42,900 interesting I think a lot of people feel 75 00:02:48,170 --> 00:02:45,780 like they did that on purpose trying to 76 00:02:50,690 --> 00:02:48,180 bury it in there and to the sort of um 77 00:02:52,490 --> 00:02:50,700 you know take control of it like yeah 78 00:02:54,830 --> 00:02:52,500 the videos leaked a while ago but we're 79 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:54,840 officially releasing these like where 80 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:56,370 we're acknowledging it and it's like 81 00:03:00,170 --> 00:02:57,810 yeah you're about three years too late 82 00:03:02,150 --> 00:03:00,180 but um but I think you're right man I 83 00:03:04,580 --> 00:03:02,160 think this could be the disclosure we're 84 00:03:07,210 --> 00:03:04,590 living in whether it continues or not is 85 00:03:10,430 --> 00:03:07,220 I really think up to the observers who 86 00:03:12,110 --> 00:03:10,440 see these things report UFOs I mean one 87 00:03:15,830 --> 00:03:12,120 of which is in the chat right now Gary 88 00:03:18,500 --> 00:03:15,840 Voorhees was one of the men during the 89 00:03:21,470 --> 00:03:18,510 nimitz event so a big hello to Gary I've 90 00:03:23,420 --> 00:03:21,480 got some really exciting news to share 91 00:03:25,550 --> 00:03:23,430 about Gary and some stuff we're working 92 00:03:29,150 --> 00:03:25,560 on in the near future but um thanks for 93 00:03:31,310 --> 00:03:29,160 joining us Gary but you know man so the 94 00:03:33,650 --> 00:03:31,320 real reason I have you here today is to 95 00:03:36,830 --> 00:03:33,660 talk about stranger than fiction you're 96 00:03:39,620 --> 00:03:36,840 you're sort of I guess you're Return of 97 00:03:42,770 --> 00:03:39,630 the Jedi of their trilogy as it were a 98 00:03:44,539 --> 00:03:42,780 punk rock in UFO so um yeah before we 99 00:03:46,190 --> 00:03:44,549 kind of dive into I want to focus on a 100 00:03:49,130 --> 00:03:46,200 couple chapters that I really found 101 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:49,140 interesting in the book but before we do 102 00:03:52,789 --> 00:03:50,850 that can you sort of give us like a 103 00:03:54,710 --> 00:03:52,799 summary what is this book about 104 00:03:58,009 --> 00:03:54,720 and what makes it different from the 105 00:04:01,729 --> 00:03:58,019 first two in punk rock in UFOs so this 106 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:01,739 book it's almost like you know it's kind 107 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:02,850 of like you know the trilogy in the 108 00:04:06,590 --> 00:04:05,130 sense where you know you always wanted 109 00:04:07,910 --> 00:04:06,600 to kind of come to an end in a sense I'm 110 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:07,920 not saying I'm never gonna ride the UFO 111 00:04:12,470 --> 00:04:09,810 book again but I wanted to do something 112 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:12,480 different I feel like so many UFO cases 113 00:04:16,069 --> 00:04:14,130 and so many stories are just been beaten 114 00:04:19,219 --> 00:04:16,079 to death so I really want to do 115 00:04:20,849 --> 00:04:19,229 something unique and this is basically 116 00:04:22,350 --> 00:04:20,859 building off of the 117 00:04:24,869 --> 00:04:22,360 yes books so what I started with this 118 00:04:26,189 --> 00:04:24,879 one you know I start with the previous 119 00:04:27,929 --> 00:04:26,199 ones like you have true believers I 120 00:04:29,309 --> 00:04:27,939 really wanted to kind of focus on you 121 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:29,319 know some of the people who are doing 122 00:04:33,749 --> 00:04:31,090 the great work and that UFO community 123 00:04:35,309 --> 00:04:33,759 and researching and also to try to kind 124 00:04:37,469 --> 00:04:35,319 of bridge that gap between the common 125 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:37,479 person to try I'm interested in this 126 00:04:41,999 --> 00:04:39,490 topic in the first place 127 00:04:43,740 --> 00:04:42,009 this book is basically the idea behind 128 00:04:46,290 --> 00:04:43,750 is trying to normalize the idea of 129 00:04:49,170 --> 00:04:46,300 paranormal just to realize that you know 130 00:04:50,879 --> 00:04:49,180 because it it's really not that weird 131 00:04:52,290 --> 00:04:50,889 you know some the stuff that we study 132 00:04:56,399 --> 00:04:52,300 even the more far-out stuff by 133 00:04:58,290 --> 00:04:56,409 consciousness and zoology and you know 134 00:05:02,010 --> 00:04:58,300 your death experiences all these things 135 00:05:05,100 --> 00:05:02,020 are rooted in some truth and a lot of 136 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:05,110 fictional stories throughout the years 137 00:05:09,510 --> 00:05:07,210 whether it's through this folklore comic 138 00:05:11,879 --> 00:05:09,520 books pop culture have mirror that so 139 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:11,889 they dig the name of the books the basic 140 00:05:16,950 --> 00:05:14,370 normalized paranormal and I use a lot of 141 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:16,960 current pop culture examples as well as 142 00:05:23,999 --> 00:05:20,289 some things in the current events and 143 00:05:25,559 --> 00:05:24,009 you know in our field is as well so yeah 144 00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:25,569 that's basically the focus of the book 145 00:05:28,980 --> 00:05:27,310 and I really wanted to do a deeper dive 146 00:05:30,779 --> 00:05:28,990 and I've done in my previous books 147 00:05:33,089 --> 00:05:30,789 Cree's Matilda more concise this one I 148 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:33,099 really wanted to kind of almost approach 149 00:05:38,700 --> 00:05:35,289 it like more stories that make sense 150 00:05:41,070 --> 00:05:38,710 yeah yeah absolutely I think you really 151 00:05:43,079 --> 00:05:41,080 stretch your muscles with this one I 152 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:43,089 mean just from what I've read so far of 153 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:45,849 it I mean it was like blowing my mind 154 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:47,770 man and there's some of that stuff we'll 155 00:05:51,540 --> 00:05:49,810 get into because I think it is a 156 00:05:54,059 --> 00:05:51,550 departure from your earlier two works 157 00:05:56,189 --> 00:05:54,069 but it also also builds off of them a 158 00:05:57,929 --> 00:05:56,199 lot and that really spoke to me in 159 00:06:00,929 --> 00:05:57,939 Chapter two of the book I love this 160 00:06:02,809 --> 00:06:00,939 title to the Stars Wars that that's a 161 00:06:06,059 --> 00:06:02,819 little hard to say I'm not gonna lie ah 162 00:06:08,730 --> 00:06:06,069 very witty title and for obvious reasons 163 00:06:10,260 --> 00:06:08,740 to the storms but um you kind of start 164 00:06:12,990 --> 00:06:10,270 the chapter with talking about something 165 00:06:15,300 --> 00:06:13,000 that uh one of our past guests Robby 166 00:06:18,929 --> 00:06:15,310 Graham is kind of known for and that's 167 00:06:22,140 --> 00:06:18,939 how Hollywood mixes with UFOs the media 168 00:06:24,450 --> 00:06:22,150 in general I would say and you start the 169 00:06:27,300 --> 00:06:24,460 chapter off talking about how we have 170 00:06:29,309 --> 00:06:27,310 all these alien themed movies that come 171 00:06:32,129 --> 00:06:29,319 out and it's always some sort of 172 00:06:34,559 --> 00:06:32,139 invasion and the humans always win in 173 00:06:37,019 --> 00:06:34,569 the end so I'm really fascinated 174 00:06:38,850 --> 00:06:37,029 - to see you take this route right from 175 00:06:40,829 --> 00:06:38,860 the start in the beginning of the book 176 00:06:43,649 --> 00:06:40,839 and um could you maybe give us a little 177 00:06:46,169 --> 00:06:43,659 idea of what you were going for when it 178 00:06:47,879 --> 00:06:46,179 came to starting the book this way well 179 00:06:50,699 --> 00:06:47,889 yeah this is the second chapter and I 180 00:06:52,739 --> 00:06:50,709 remember to introduce kind of you know 181 00:06:54,359 --> 00:06:52,749 the second chapter really dives deep 182 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:54,369 into kind of what we're seeing right now 183 00:06:59,760 --> 00:06:56,770 you know the limits that take that go 184 00:07:01,469 --> 00:06:59,770 and all those it's well but I wanted to 185 00:07:03,779 --> 00:07:01,479 kind of go back to some science fiction 186 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:03,789 movies and as well and just kind of you 187 00:07:08,850 --> 00:07:06,610 know this idea that in all these films 188 00:07:11,010 --> 00:07:08,860 that you know the humans always you know 189 00:07:12,929 --> 00:07:11,020 we always persevere and yeah I really 190 00:07:14,459 --> 00:07:12,939 think that helps with the potential 191 00:07:17,699 --> 00:07:14,469 threat narrative you know so it's like 192 00:07:19,739 --> 00:07:17,709 it's this idea that we've a custom - in 193 00:07:21,959 --> 00:07:19,749 our pop culture of UFOs and alien 194 00:07:23,639 --> 00:07:21,969 invasions but so maybe we shouldn't be a 195 00:07:25,170 --> 00:07:23,649 comfortable with the truth you know 196 00:07:26,670 --> 00:07:25,180 since we've seen these films and you 197 00:07:28,639 --> 00:07:26,680 know we always window you know in 198 00:07:30,989 --> 00:07:28,649 reality that probably would be the case 199 00:07:32,790 --> 00:07:30,999 kind of want to introduce that because 200 00:07:34,499 --> 00:07:32,800 like I said I wanna you know I want the 201 00:07:35,699 --> 00:07:34,509 average person the non UFO person to 202 00:07:36,869 --> 00:07:35,709 read the book - you're kind of get an 203 00:07:39,359 --> 00:07:36,879 idea and if they can make that 204 00:07:41,939 --> 00:07:39,369 connection between oh yeah I thought 205 00:07:43,469 --> 00:07:41,949 Independence Day you know if they can 206 00:07:46,100 --> 00:07:43,479 make that connection to that and kind of 207 00:07:48,269 --> 00:07:46,110 some of the real-life cases for sure 208 00:07:50,879 --> 00:07:48,279 well yeah and I mean one of those 209 00:07:53,009 --> 00:07:50,889 real-life cases that I'm sure we'll talk 210 00:07:55,619 --> 00:07:53,019 about a few times tonight is the 211 00:07:57,779 --> 00:07:55,629 tick-tack UFO event I mean where we have 212 00:08:00,420 --> 00:07:57,789 Navy pilots and people on the ground 213 00:08:02,969 --> 00:08:00,430 saying they can't identify these things 214 00:08:06,269 --> 00:08:02,979 we're seeing they outmaneuvered our most 215 00:08:08,730 --> 00:08:06,279 sophisticated fighter jets so I mean now 216 00:08:11,549 --> 00:08:08,740 that we have current UFO cases talking 217 00:08:14,159 --> 00:08:11,559 about how technologically advanced these 218 00:08:16,290 --> 00:08:14,169 phenomena seem to be do you think we're 219 00:08:19,739 --> 00:08:16,300 gonna start to see more of these movies 220 00:08:23,009 --> 00:08:19,749 coming out with aliens and humans being 221 00:08:25,009 --> 00:08:23,019 in control and being on top and I guess 222 00:08:27,569 --> 00:08:25,019 winning as it were 223 00:08:29,369 --> 00:08:27,579 well yeah it's weird like you know life 224 00:08:32,429 --> 00:08:29,379 reflects our in our reflects life it's 225 00:08:34,949 --> 00:08:32,439 kind of like - meiotic in a sense so 226 00:08:37,529 --> 00:08:34,959 it's I think we will I don't know if 227 00:08:38,999 --> 00:08:37,539 it's part of any you know anything that 228 00:08:40,949 --> 00:08:39,009 was mapped out for this to come out but 229 00:08:43,379 --> 00:08:40,959 I mean I think if you look it's even 230 00:08:44,939 --> 00:08:43,389 some of our non alien invasion rubies I 231 00:08:47,460 --> 00:08:44,949 mean these themes are in everything you 232 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:47,470 know right now we're watching all the 233 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:48,370 Marvel films 234 00:08:53,210 --> 00:08:51,250 logically during quarantine you do and 235 00:08:55,050 --> 00:08:53,220 there's so many things I didn't catch 236 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:55,060 that I should have been I could have 237 00:08:58,140 --> 00:08:56,770 included my book but like part of it is 238 00:08:59,940 --> 00:08:58,150 like you know if you read that book and 239 00:09:02,100 --> 00:08:59,950 you go watch that movie you say oh wait 240 00:09:03,540 --> 00:09:02,110 a minute this Marvel movie is 241 00:09:05,940 --> 00:09:03,550 referencing something I've read before 242 00:09:08,250 --> 00:09:05,950 you know something a biologist tried or 243 00:09:10,019 --> 00:09:08,260 scientist tried her or something else he 244 00:09:12,420 --> 00:09:10,029 had that kind of goal I want someone to 245 00:09:15,060 --> 00:09:12,430 make their own connections as well yeah 246 00:09:17,100 --> 00:09:15,070 yeah one of the really interesting 247 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:17,110 things in this chapter to Mike that I 248 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:21,010 found was this term called camouflage 249 00:09:26,070 --> 00:09:24,370 through limited disclosure yeah could 250 00:09:27,540 --> 00:09:26,080 you maybe tell us a little about the guy 251 00:09:29,579 --> 00:09:27,550 who said this I'm sure a lot of the 252 00:09:31,710 --> 00:09:29,589 people in the UFO field know who this 253 00:09:33,870 --> 00:09:31,720 person is but yeah what did you mean by 254 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:33,880 this term camouflage through limited 255 00:09:37,890 --> 00:09:36,610 disclosure well I had to mention is it's 256 00:09:39,630 --> 00:09:37,900 one of my favorite books we've discussed 257 00:09:41,940 --> 00:09:39,640 this before the day after Roswell about 258 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:41,950 folk or so and for those who don't know 259 00:09:46,590 --> 00:09:44,130 philip corso was an ex Pentagon official 260 00:09:50,220 --> 00:09:46,600 whose job was a coordinate allegedly 261 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:50,230 after Roswell is was to take crashed 262 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:53,050 tech and then pass along to private 263 00:09:57,030 --> 00:09:55,330 enterprises event for them to try to 264 00:09:59,699 --> 00:09:57,040 reverse-engineer it and a lot of people 265 00:10:02,160 --> 00:09:59,709 believe that was that attributed to the 266 00:10:04,769 --> 00:10:02,170 technology we saw around that time so 267 00:10:06,090 --> 00:10:04,779 that quote comes from him and I mean 268 00:10:07,769 --> 00:10:06,100 think about it you know this is 269 00:10:09,570 --> 00:10:07,779 something that I mean this isn't a new 270 00:10:12,660 --> 00:10:09,580 idea you know the city of limited 271 00:10:14,430 --> 00:10:12,670 disclosure you know and if you look at 272 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:14,440 it through the the films that were made 273 00:10:19,829 --> 00:10:17,650 in the 80s and Close Encounters and et 274 00:10:22,620 --> 00:10:19,839 and you know allegedly those were you 275 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:22,630 know people who made the films consulted 276 00:10:25,620 --> 00:10:24,010 with some government officials so I 277 00:10:28,230 --> 00:10:25,630 think it's all part of that you know 278 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:28,240 that idea that fiction and nonfiction 279 00:10:33,390 --> 00:10:30,250 kind of worked hand in hand attempts 280 00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:33,400 yeah yeah I would have to agree and I 281 00:10:39,420 --> 00:10:36,690 mean probably one of the most visible 282 00:10:41,610 --> 00:10:39,430 companies doing that right now trying to 283 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:41,620 disclose through arts and entertainment 284 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:45,010 is to the stars to the stars academy of 285 00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:48,370 arts and entertainment and you spoke to 286 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:50,830 several individuals connected with some 287 00:10:54,810 --> 00:10:53,050 of the television properties that to the 288 00:10:57,690 --> 00:10:54,820 Stars is putting out on History Channel 289 00:11:00,420 --> 00:10:57,700 seem to be on what was it TBS I believe 290 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:00,430 Vanessa yeah would you mind maybe 291 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:01,510 running us through 292 00:11:05,820 --> 00:11:03,130 what it was like talking to these guys 293 00:11:07,290 --> 00:11:05,830 and maybe what their goal or mission is 294 00:11:10,350 --> 00:11:07,300 with getting this stuff out to the 295 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:10,360 public well so so part of that was 296 00:11:13,980 --> 00:11:12,010 talking to not just people associated 297 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:13,990 with the Stars properties but just in 298 00:11:17,340 --> 00:11:15,610 general you know major television 299 00:11:19,050 --> 00:11:17,350 producers some of the ones that you've 300 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:19,060 worked with as well understand their 301 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:20,410 approach to these shows and you know 302 00:11:25,860 --> 00:11:23,170 what why you know why they do they've 303 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:25,870 been kind of how they the cultural 304 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:27,250 effect it has so I wanted to kind of 305 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:29,410 reach out to everyone stands for I was 306 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:30,730 one of the guys I reached out to because 307 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:34,210 he's producing tamil others watch was a 308 00:11:38,370 --> 00:11:35,650 California which no one really knows 309 00:11:41,340 --> 00:11:38,380 much about he thought Santa I also 310 00:11:43,110 --> 00:11:41,350 produced the Khaliq show reboot that was 311 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:43,120 it's on AMC right now that's on shudder 312 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:45,250 but I mean basically he's really brought 313 00:11:48,570 --> 00:11:46,810 into this idea that you know he's on 314 00:11:49,890 --> 00:11:48,580 board but you know that they're helping 315 00:11:52,230 --> 00:11:49,900 disclose some of this information 316 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:52,240 through these fictional properties which 317 00:11:55,710 --> 00:11:54,370 I know you know this is something they 318 00:11:57,420 --> 00:11:55,720 discussed from the very beginning and I 319 00:11:59,910 --> 00:11:57,430 know a lot of people you know we're 320 00:12:02,460 --> 00:11:59,920 opposed to that and I get that get that 321 00:12:04,020 --> 00:12:02,470 skepticism but it's like you know if you 322 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:04,030 look back through history and you know 323 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:06,370 from you know for me not just history as 324 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:09,010 we know it but just humanities and other 325 00:12:12,030 --> 00:12:10,690 studies it's like the lines have been 326 00:12:14,190 --> 00:12:12,040 blurred the whole time you know this 327 00:12:16,380 --> 00:12:14,200 isn't a new idea this is this isn't 328 00:12:18,290 --> 00:12:16,390 something that needs to be you know 329 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:18,300 vilified because it happens all the time 330 00:12:24,630 --> 00:12:21,130 yeah yeah that's a really good point and 331 00:12:26,820 --> 00:12:24,640 I mean sort of circling back to I guess 332 00:12:30,210 --> 00:12:26,830 to the Stars Academy I mean it always 333 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:30,220 comes back to them somehow I want to get 334 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:31,570 your thoughts on this you spoke about 335 00:12:35,730 --> 00:12:33,850 this in the book as well this 336 00:12:38,310 --> 00:12:35,740 cooperation between to the stars 337 00:12:40,260 --> 00:12:38,320 and the army I mean the navies one thing 338 00:12:42,210 --> 00:12:40,270 you know to the Stars sort of had this 339 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:42,220 chain effect whether it was through the 340 00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:43,930 New York Times articles or their 341 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:46,240 television shows of kind of pressuring 342 00:12:52,140 --> 00:12:48,970 the Navy to start to be vocal about this 343 00:12:55,530 --> 00:12:52,150 and even you know update their reporting 344 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:55,540 protocol on UFOs by speaking to senators 345 00:12:59,550 --> 00:12:57,610 and members of Congress I mean it's 346 00:13:01,020 --> 00:12:59,560 crazy to think of what this company has 347 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:01,030 been able to achieve in the amount of 348 00:13:04,950 --> 00:13:02,770 time they've been around but now we have 349 00:13:07,380 --> 00:13:04,960 the army and they're actually working 350 00:13:10,140 --> 00:13:07,390 with the army on something so could you 351 00:13:12,780 --> 00:13:10,150 maybe clue us in on what is this company 352 00:13:15,269 --> 00:13:12,790 to the Stars doing with the army and do 353 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:15,279 you think this is good I mean is is 354 00:13:19,829 --> 00:13:17,170 gonna are we gonna ever know what 355 00:13:21,420 --> 00:13:19,839 they're actually working on I mean who 356 00:13:23,579 --> 00:13:21,430 knows you know forever gonna know but I 357 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:23,589 think a lot of people the tractors like 358 00:13:27,059 --> 00:13:25,689 them they like to marginalize some of 359 00:13:28,650 --> 00:13:27,069 the some of the advances that so the 360 00:13:30,119 --> 00:13:28,660 Stars have done and this is something 361 00:13:32,009 --> 00:13:30,129 that they kind of scoff at it's like 362 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:32,019 this is kind of a big deal you know 363 00:13:36,299 --> 00:13:33,370 whether we get to know or not but the 364 00:13:37,980 --> 00:13:36,309 fact that potentially you know some of 365 00:13:40,410 --> 00:13:37,990 the stars now has their laughs whether 366 00:13:43,199 --> 00:13:40,420 it's the fact that the government's you 367 00:13:44,999 --> 00:13:43,209 know it's a go or not yeah this is 368 00:13:46,530 --> 00:13:45,009 something we talked about - it's the 369 00:13:48,569 --> 00:13:46,540 stars is a very small company even 370 00:13:52,769 --> 00:13:48,579 though they have a lot of people with 371 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:52,779 you know huge resumes and big egos and 372 00:13:57,299 --> 00:13:55,689 you know a lot of experience they're 373 00:13:59,970 --> 00:13:57,309 still very small companies so now they 374 00:14:01,530 --> 00:13:59,980 actually have the facilities to try to 375 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:01,540 do these things that they were teasing 376 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:03,730 doing the very beginning like remember 377 00:14:07,079 --> 00:14:04,930 the first things they teased it was like 378 00:14:08,519 --> 00:14:07,089 a spaceship you know it's like who knows 379 00:14:10,230 --> 00:14:08,529 that there'd be able to build that but 380 00:14:12,239 --> 00:14:10,240 if they can at least try to work towards 381 00:14:14,309 --> 00:14:12,249 something like that now maybe they have 382 00:14:17,009 --> 00:14:14,319 a mechanism to do so which they didn't 383 00:14:18,809 --> 00:14:17,019 have before yeah that's a really good 384 00:14:21,179 --> 00:14:18,819 point I mean and a lot of it comes down 385 00:14:23,009 --> 00:14:21,189 to funding let's be completely honest I 386 00:14:26,069 --> 00:14:23,019 mean I would assume the army has 387 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:26,079 unlimited funds when it comes to R&D and 388 00:14:31,019 --> 00:14:29,170 you know advanced propulsion or weaponry 389 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:31,029 whatever the heck they're working on so 390 00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:33,370 you know what if this is how we're going 391 00:14:39,990 --> 00:14:36,160 to get those small disclosures as it 392 00:14:41,999 --> 00:14:40,000 were then I'm all for it and as long as 393 00:14:44,340 --> 00:14:42,009 they're working in cooperation and the 394 00:14:46,710 --> 00:14:44,350 public is actually privy to what they're 395 00:14:48,569 --> 00:14:46,720 doing to an extent I think it'll be 396 00:14:52,619 --> 00:14:48,579 pretty interesting to see where that all 397 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:52,629 goes but um no last question concerning 398 00:14:58,199 --> 00:14:55,930 to the stars I promised my man we got 399 00:15:00,540 --> 00:14:58,209 Tom DeLonge the guy who we really 400 00:15:03,119 --> 00:15:00,550 haven't heard a lot from since the 401 00:15:05,579 --> 00:15:03,129 company started a few interviews at the 402 00:15:07,799 --> 00:15:05,589 beginning and then they kind of uh kind 403 00:15:11,460 --> 00:15:07,809 of shut him up for a while 404 00:15:14,299 --> 00:15:11,470 but you were actually able to get quotes 405 00:15:17,549 --> 00:15:14,309 from DeLong himself for the book and 406 00:15:19,710 --> 00:15:17,559 kudos man it is I can't imagine that was 407 00:15:22,679 --> 00:15:19,720 easy but how did that opportunity come 408 00:15:25,319 --> 00:15:22,689 about and what about what he said really 409 00:15:27,650 --> 00:15:25,329 resonated for you to put it in the book 410 00:15:29,390 --> 00:15:27,660 um so 411 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:29,400 you know it's hard you know like you 412 00:15:33,830 --> 00:15:32,010 know the they've been very selective of 413 00:15:36,110 --> 00:15:33,840 who they dealt with in terms of press 414 00:15:37,070 --> 00:15:36,120 ever since they started I thought you 415 00:15:39,740 --> 00:15:37,080 know at first it was obviously 416 00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:39,750 mainstream outlets because I mean that 417 00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:41,310 was the way to go I don't think the UFO 418 00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:43,710 community was ever on their radar in 419 00:15:47,570 --> 00:15:45,120 terms of people that they want needed to 420 00:15:49,010 --> 00:15:47,580 an inch or two or appease but I mean 421 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:49,020 lately they've been even a lot more open 422 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:52,410 towards you know doing you know more 423 00:15:55,310 --> 00:15:54,090 stuff you know seeing Chris Nolan on 424 00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:55,320 Twitter and answering questions which is 425 00:16:00,740 --> 00:15:56,880 really cool I mean this is the stuff 426 00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:00,750 that UFO you know Twitter and UFO fans 427 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:02,910 been wanting to do for a long time so 428 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:03,810 it's really cool that they're being a 429 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:05,010 little more open now to some of these 430 00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:06,210 things and maybe they're allowed to now 431 00:16:10,730 --> 00:16:07,680 maybe there was reasons why they come in 432 00:16:12,380 --> 00:16:10,740 who knows but the opportunity you know 433 00:16:14,690 --> 00:16:12,390 that I was able to get a quote from Tom 434 00:16:17,270 --> 00:16:14,700 for my book was something I'm working on 435 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:17,280 for a long time you know we talked about 436 00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:19,130 this in the past I used to do journalism 437 00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:21,120 full-time fuchsine Chronicle and 438 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:22,800 interviewed Tom before I met him I sat 439 00:16:26,270 --> 00:16:24,210 down with them in the past to do our 440 00:16:27,650 --> 00:16:26,280 music interviews so I've always had a 441 00:16:29,180 --> 00:16:27,660 working relationship but the people who 442 00:16:31,550 --> 00:16:29,190 hit a loop but that all changed which 443 00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:31,560 the stars happened when I was pitching 444 00:16:36,590 --> 00:16:34,560 the idea you know the sort of book to 445 00:16:38,180 --> 00:16:36,600 them what I was doing hey you know who I 446 00:16:39,380 --> 00:16:38,190 already have on board I think that's 447 00:16:42,380 --> 00:16:39,390 what they looked at and they look at the 448 00:16:44,420 --> 00:16:42,390 scope of the book and my you know quote 449 00:16:45,890 --> 00:16:44,430 was regarding sticker machines and I 450 00:16:49,490 --> 00:16:45,900 thought you know I told me how this 451 00:16:50,930 --> 00:16:49,500 would really help you know kind of make 452 00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:50,940 the point I was trying to make as well 453 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:54,240 and they were down and I was very very 454 00:16:57,770 --> 00:16:56,250 happy that they were down Tom you have a 455 00:16:59,420 --> 00:16:57,780 great quote and I know he's really busy 456 00:17:01,370 --> 00:16:59,430 and I just asked if they could email to 457 00:17:03,260 --> 00:17:01,380 me you know I wasn't trying to you know 458 00:17:04,460 --> 00:17:03,270 I get him on the phone or anything like 459 00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:04,470 that like whatever I can tell you I'll 460 00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:06,329 take I know that was a really busy week 461 00:17:09,260 --> 00:17:08,130 for them tubes and when I was waiting 462 00:17:11,390 --> 00:17:09,270 for that quote from the book he was 463 00:17:13,910 --> 00:17:11,400 doing a lot of radio because he's Illya 464 00:17:15,290 --> 00:17:13,920 rain just dropped a new song and covin 465 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:15,300 was happening so you know why they don't 466 00:17:20,030 --> 00:17:17,250 on a downtime so it was right place 467 00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:20,040 right time and it's a great quote you 468 00:17:25,370 --> 00:17:22,160 know and his quote basically talks about 469 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:25,380 you know having two different franchises 470 00:17:29,930 --> 00:17:27,930 with secret machines of fiction and the 471 00:17:31,670 --> 00:17:29,940 nonfiction element house is basically 472 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:31,680 you know really ties to the idea that 473 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:33,330 I'm kind of pushing in the book that 474 00:17:36,350 --> 00:17:35,130 this has been happening you know from 475 00:17:38,090 --> 00:17:36,360 the beginning of time this isn't a new 476 00:17:40,159 --> 00:17:38,100 idea that fiction of nonfiction 477 00:17:42,049 --> 00:17:40,169 sometimes intersect and so 478 00:17:43,899 --> 00:17:42,059 having having you know Tom's boat in the 479 00:17:47,239 --> 00:17:43,909 book you know as well as Peter Levin de 480 00:17:48,349 --> 00:17:47,249 Kevin day and quite a few of people 481 00:17:50,479 --> 00:17:48,359 who've been involved in you know went to 482 00:17:52,669 --> 00:17:50,489 the star stuff I've been you know he's a 483 00:17:55,729 --> 00:17:52,679 real thing yeah growing up it was an 484 00:17:59,229 --> 00:17:55,739 atomic yeah it really really completes 485 00:18:02,180 --> 00:17:59,239 the book I thought yeah I as a fellow 486 00:18:04,970 --> 00:18:02,190 blink-182 slash Angels and Airwaves fat 487 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:04,980 I I can only imagine it you know that 488 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:08,129 that's awesome and well I mean sort of 489 00:18:15,769 --> 00:18:12,690 that idea of truth and fiction or fact 490 00:18:18,109 --> 00:18:15,779 and fiction blending you that really 491 00:18:20,869 --> 00:18:18,119 came across in Chapter four of your book 492 00:18:23,629 --> 00:18:20,879 which was by far my favorite chapter in 493 00:18:25,849 --> 00:18:23,639 the entire book I mean some of the names 494 00:18:28,070 --> 00:18:25,859 you mentioned Jeffery [\h__\h] was 495 00:18:30,259 --> 00:18:28,080 involved a bunch of other people and you 496 00:18:32,450 --> 00:18:30,269 start the chapter with a really good 497 00:18:34,519 --> 00:18:32,460 quote by Jeffery [\h__\h] so I was 498 00:18:37,279 --> 00:18:34,529 wondering if maybe you could give us an 499 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:37,289 idea of who this guy is and and what 500 00:18:40,190 --> 00:18:39,090 that quote meant to you to put it at the 501 00:18:43,129 --> 00:18:40,200 beginning of the chapter 502 00:18:44,629 --> 00:18:43,139 so Jeffrey crime pool is probably my 503 00:18:46,609 --> 00:18:44,639 opinion episodes before prevalent most 504 00:18:50,509 --> 00:18:46,619 underrated people when it comes to the 505 00:18:54,649 --> 00:18:50,519 paranormal and UFOs and he's just very I 506 00:18:55,879 --> 00:18:54,659 was nonchalant about it - it's like and 507 00:18:57,470 --> 00:18:55,889 I'm a couple years ago when I interview 508 00:18:59,659 --> 00:18:57,480 him for my last book and since then I've 509 00:19:00,979 --> 00:18:59,669 kind of been friended them I did the 510 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:00,989 story thing last time up I was on we 511 00:19:05,749 --> 00:19:03,450 talked about the the archives that he's 512 00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:05,759 housing at Rice University and you send 513 00:19:12,379 --> 00:19:07,049 it for those who know he's basically 514 00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:12,389 getting encourages incredible collection 515 00:19:18,289 --> 00:19:16,230 of documents from the CIA but his stuff 516 00:19:21,259 --> 00:19:18,299 from the CIA don't say that 517 00:19:22,999 --> 00:19:21,269 but basically you know for like certain 518 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:23,009 experiments that were done for different 519 00:19:29,419 --> 00:19:27,090 scientists did as well as all the notes 520 00:19:31,070 --> 00:19:29,429 from JA la Whitley Strieber 521 00:19:34,039 --> 00:19:31,080 all that stuff that he's getting housed 522 00:19:35,869 --> 00:19:34,049 in there so he is a professor of 523 00:19:37,489 --> 00:19:35,879 Religious Studies he's an expert at the 524 00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:37,499 paranormal he's been studying this stuff 525 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:39,840 for years I mean you know he's on the 526 00:19:42,229 --> 00:19:41,369 more the humanity side you know he's 527 00:19:44,599 --> 00:19:42,239 happen nuts and bolt 528 00:19:46,970 --> 00:19:44,609 you know UFO guy he's the he's one of 529 00:19:48,649 --> 00:19:46,980 those guys who's basically you know the 530 00:19:50,690 --> 00:19:48,659 future of youth ology is going towards 531 00:19:51,860 --> 00:19:50,700 you know more spiritualism the 532 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:51,870 consciousness and he's one of those 533 00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:54,330 for years I've been writing about the 534 00:19:58,250 --> 00:19:57,120 weird elements of it so yeah I started 535 00:20:02,120 --> 00:19:58,260 off with the Chloe I think the quote I 536 00:20:04,310 --> 00:20:02,130 used was to start that chapter was right 537 00:20:06,380 --> 00:20:04,320 which wasn't the one about the Bible is 538 00:20:09,140 --> 00:20:06,390 fully preferred as paranormal stories 539 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:09,150 yes yep that is it again he's a 540 00:20:13,370 --> 00:20:10,890 professor of Religious Studies as well 541 00:20:15,830 --> 00:20:13,380 so he's had his own experiences too and 542 00:20:17,630 --> 00:20:15,840 he's absolutely genius but I think that 543 00:20:20,060 --> 00:20:17,640 quote really hits home because it's true 544 00:20:21,410 --> 00:20:20,070 you know if you were to present you know 545 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:21,420 the stories that you read in the Bible 546 00:20:26,150 --> 00:20:23,250 to them that was life it wasn't what we 547 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:26,160 call paranormal you know so somewhere 548 00:20:29,930 --> 00:20:28,530 I'm not saying every story is true but 549 00:20:32,090 --> 00:20:29,940 somewhere between men and now 550 00:20:35,350 --> 00:20:32,100 something's changed with how we view yes 551 00:20:38,090 --> 00:20:35,360 and a reality in general is change 552 00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:38,100 absolutely yeah and the word God is 553 00:20:41,690 --> 00:20:39,510 probably going to come up a lot in this 554 00:20:44,630 --> 00:20:41,700 conversation and that's what I love 555 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:44,640 about this topic is um we seem to be 556 00:20:51,890 --> 00:20:47,970 moving into this really interesting age 557 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:51,900 of UFO discourse in mixing it with 558 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:53,730 religion I mean people like Diana 559 00:20:57,620 --> 00:20:55,490 Basilica have written about this 560 00:20:59,150 --> 00:20:57,630 extensively and people have been talking 561 00:21:01,520 --> 00:20:59,160 about this for a really long time too 562 00:21:03,890 --> 00:21:01,530 and I thought it was really interesting 563 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:03,900 another person that you got to 564 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:05,970 contribute to this chapter was like you 565 00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:07,050 mentioned Peter Clemenza 566 00:21:10,910 --> 00:21:08,910 who has worked with Tom DeLonge and the 567 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:10,920 secret machines books the the 568 00:21:17,210 --> 00:21:13,650 non-fiction books am I correct yeah um 569 00:21:19,130 --> 00:21:17,220 no I remember I don't remember which of 570 00:21:21,380 --> 00:21:19,140 the books it was in but this idea of the 571 00:21:23,660 --> 00:21:21,390 cargo cult I think this was the first 572 00:21:26,780 --> 00:21:23,670 week that came out okay um can you maybe 573 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:26,790 describe what that is to our audience 574 00:21:30,980 --> 00:21:28,770 cuz I had never even heard of it before 575 00:21:33,169 --> 00:21:30,990 I read the book and I feel like a bad 576 00:21:35,570 --> 00:21:33,179 you follow just because of that but yeah 577 00:21:38,090 --> 00:21:35,580 maybe um run us through what cargo cult 578 00:21:41,060 --> 00:21:38,100 is and why it plays such a big role in 579 00:21:43,730 --> 00:21:41,070 what levente stalking about with your 580 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:43,740 authors so in general it's the idea of a 581 00:21:48,410 --> 00:21:46,890 chronicle is when a civilization I'm 582 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:48,420 gonna say uncivilized but what an utter 583 00:21:52,730 --> 00:21:51,330 discharge symbolization kind of 584 00:21:55,100 --> 00:21:52,740 discovers a technology for the first 585 00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:55,110 time that is like the basis of but in 586 00:21:59,770 --> 00:21:56,910 terms of how its applied to your apology 587 00:22:01,880 --> 00:21:59,780 and as well 588 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:01,890 it's almost looked at I mean if you look 589 00:22:07,249 --> 00:22:03,330 at the ancient astronaut theory it kind 590 00:22:11,539 --> 00:22:07,259 of takes that idea that you know what if 591 00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:11,549 a society that's never seen an aircraft 592 00:22:16,940 --> 00:22:13,769 before basically an aircraft also what 593 00:22:18,529 --> 00:22:16,950 are they associated with you know one 594 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:18,539 civilization or culture may think it's a 595 00:22:21,710 --> 00:22:20,490 dragon one may think it's a giant bird 596 00:22:23,659 --> 00:22:21,720 because they've never seen it before 597 00:22:26,299 --> 00:22:23,669 so if hero ivenna does in the first 598 00:22:28,610 --> 00:22:26,309 series but gods and she basically takes 599 00:22:31,009 --> 00:22:28,620 that and he really died sex it no es 600 00:22:35,769 --> 00:22:31,019 ever that's what has been done before he 601 00:22:37,940 --> 00:22:35,779 almost takes what zecharia sitchin and 602 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:37,950 erich von daniken didn't really 603 00:22:44,029 --> 00:22:41,250 approaches it from more academic manner 604 00:22:46,610 --> 00:22:44,039 if that makes sense it's less that 605 00:22:47,899 --> 00:22:46,620 everything is aliens to more of let's 606 00:22:49,669 --> 00:22:47,909 really get to the bottom of what these 607 00:22:53,330 --> 00:22:49,679 cultures believe and what they 608 00:22:56,210 --> 00:22:53,340 potentially saw so that's his angle yeah 609 00:22:58,820 --> 00:22:56,220 and I mean I remember speaking to Myka 610 00:23:01,940 --> 00:22:58,830 Hanks not too long ago about this whole 611 00:23:03,769 --> 00:23:01,950 idea that UFOs throughout time and how 612 00:23:06,740 --> 00:23:03,779 they've been perceived and it really 613 00:23:09,379 --> 00:23:06,750 does depend on the culture viewing it I 614 00:23:12,259 --> 00:23:09,389 mean if you're if you're back in the 615 00:23:14,749 --> 00:23:12,269 days of antiquity and you see a flying 616 00:23:17,539 --> 00:23:14,759 wheel in the sky like you're probably 617 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:17,549 gonna think it's a god or something like 618 00:23:22,490 --> 00:23:20,250 that or you see these flying shields in 619 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:22,500 the sky during the time of war this 620 00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:27,090 could be a you know a aberration or a a 621 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:30,720 sign of bad things to come so it is 622 00:23:36,529 --> 00:23:32,490 really interesting to see throughout 623 00:23:39,950 --> 00:23:36,539 time how possibly the UFO phenomenon has 624 00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:39,960 been perceived and one of the quotes 625 00:23:45,289 --> 00:23:42,720 that was in this chapter it came from 626 00:23:48,350 --> 00:23:45,299 you and you said that secret machines 627 00:23:50,090 --> 00:23:48,360 man by lavinda and DeLong is a good 628 00:23:52,310 --> 00:23:50,100 representation of what - the stars 629 00:23:54,799 --> 00:23:52,320 Academy of Arts and Science is looking 630 00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:54,809 to all ultimately achieve which is to 631 00:24:00,379 --> 00:23:57,210 inspire a new generation to reevaluate 632 00:24:03,110 --> 00:24:00,389 and reimagine science society and 633 00:24:05,389 --> 00:24:03,120 humanity I mean that kind of says it all 634 00:24:07,759 --> 00:24:05,399 right there they're kind of they're 635 00:24:10,129 --> 00:24:07,769 taking what we we've all been talking 636 00:24:12,409 --> 00:24:10,139 about for so long in trying to bring it 637 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:12,419 to a new generation so yeah what did 638 00:24:16,639 --> 00:24:14,850 that quote mean to you I mean I just 639 00:24:18,019 --> 00:24:16,649 wanted to kind of just summarize not 640 00:24:18,620 --> 00:24:18,029 only that book I thought that book was a 641 00:24:19,700 --> 00:24:18,630 good 642 00:24:21,170 --> 00:24:19,710 books in general above the sea of 643 00:24:24,620 --> 00:24:21,180 machines books just in good in general 644 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:24,630 if their overall I guess trajectory you 645 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:26,490 know I think the goal is if the goal is 646 00:24:30,740 --> 00:24:28,650 to get not know a new generation but 647 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:30,750 more people interested they've done that 648 00:24:34,580 --> 00:24:32,490 in terms of you know getting you know 649 00:24:37,310 --> 00:24:34,590 the Pentagon UFO or story not bitter 650 00:24:39,020 --> 00:24:37,320 getting you know Leslie Kean and Wayne 651 00:24:40,580 --> 00:24:39,030 Cooper Ralph Blumenthal the report on it 652 00:24:42,620 --> 00:24:40,590 and getting all these major in outlets 653 00:24:45,170 --> 00:24:42,630 to follow suit so they've done it in 654 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:45,180 that case and if you have books to 655 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:46,530 accompany it and you know someone who 656 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:48,210 may pick it up because of you know maybe 657 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:50,970 they're a fan of Tom or maybe you know 658 00:24:54,170 --> 00:24:52,770 they're into your photos like we are and 659 00:24:56,360 --> 00:24:54,180 you know they may learn something new I 660 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:56,370 think I think ultimately you know the 661 00:24:59,150 --> 00:24:57,570 best thing you can do is get more people 662 00:25:02,290 --> 00:24:59,160 involved in the subject and no matter 663 00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:02,300 how you do it it could be beneficial 664 00:25:08,210 --> 00:25:04,110 yeah absolutely 665 00:25:10,820 --> 00:25:08,220 um another really interesting sort of 666 00:25:13,850 --> 00:25:10,830 Avenue you took in this chapter was the 667 00:25:15,230 --> 00:25:13,860 idea again of God's I I keep coming back 668 00:25:19,130 --> 00:25:15,240 to this because this is where a lot of 669 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:19,140 my research is heading right now and you 670 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:22,250 brought up lavinda talking about how 671 00:25:27,740 --> 00:25:25,050 let's take Jesus the Son of God for 672 00:25:31,220 --> 00:25:27,750 instance on earth doing these miraculous 673 00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:31,230 things could be considered alien in many 674 00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:33,900 different ways and what do we do to him 675 00:25:38,690 --> 00:25:36,480 as humans we killed them and you brought 676 00:25:41,900 --> 00:25:38,700 up another really interesting analogy of 677 00:25:44,210 --> 00:25:41,910 that tied to this within the DC Comics 678 00:25:46,420 --> 00:25:44,220 universe so could you maybe tell us a 679 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:46,430 little about what you were trying to say 680 00:25:56,300 --> 00:25:54,570 connecting Jesus to Superman please so I 681 00:25:57,890 --> 00:25:56,310 did Jesus Superman a connection isn't 682 00:26:00,260 --> 00:25:57,900 something that I came up with there was 683 00:26:02,060 --> 00:26:00,270 not anything really new per se but I was 684 00:26:07,010 --> 00:26:02,070 looking at how it was approached in the 685 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:07,020 film's Man of Steel to Batman for 686 00:26:12,020 --> 00:26:09,810 Superman everything Zack Snyder plan for 687 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:12,030 his trajectory of those films obviously 688 00:26:15,530 --> 00:26:13,290 you know the Snyder cut will get a 689 00:26:18,020 --> 00:26:15,540 better idea but he really you know took 690 00:26:20,810 --> 00:26:18,030 the idea of Superman exists in our 691 00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:20,820 society how would he be treated and I 692 00:26:26,990 --> 00:26:22,710 mean it's what he betrayed oh I Jesus 693 00:26:28,649 --> 00:26:27,000 was the first Saviour so that was 694 00:26:30,899 --> 00:26:28,659 definitely one thing I wanted to kind 695 00:26:32,909 --> 00:26:30,909 you know focus on is that these movies 696 00:26:35,399 --> 00:26:32,919 and these comic books have been playing 697 00:26:37,649 --> 00:26:35,409 with this idea for for ages and yes 698 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:37,659 funny because you know the Batman or 699 00:26:41,639 --> 00:26:39,129 Superman really played up to this idea 700 00:26:43,289 --> 00:26:41,649 heavily and the film got you know I got 701 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:43,299 really bad reviews and people didn't 702 00:26:47,940 --> 00:26:45,369 like the tone but I mean I think that's 703 00:26:50,369 --> 00:26:47,950 better that was a great take on it 704 00:26:51,899 --> 00:26:50,379 because if Superman was to exist in the 705 00:26:53,759 --> 00:26:51,909 real world today he would definitely be 706 00:26:55,619 --> 00:26:53,769 vilified absolutely I mean if you look 707 00:26:57,869 --> 00:26:55,629 how we treat people were different than 708 00:27:00,330 --> 00:26:57,879 us all the time you know so could you 709 00:27:01,889 --> 00:27:00,340 imagine a god coming that an alien 710 00:27:04,529 --> 00:27:01,899 coming down from the sky we've gotta 711 00:27:07,469 --> 00:27:04,539 like abilities what idiots right yeah 712 00:27:09,810 --> 00:27:07,479 yeah yeah that's a really good point and 713 00:27:12,599 --> 00:27:09,820 I mean another interesting observation 714 00:27:15,060 --> 00:27:12,609 you made was this idea that the the 715 00:27:18,210 --> 00:27:15,070 symbol of Superman you know we know the 716 00:27:20,039 --> 00:27:18,220 S stands for hope but what I didn't know 717 00:27:23,070 --> 00:27:20,049 and what you've uncovered is the 718 00:27:26,060 --> 00:27:23,080 triangle in which the S is is a Trinity 719 00:27:28,259 --> 00:27:26,070 and we can obviously trace this to 720 00:27:31,379 --> 00:27:28,269 Christianity with the the Holy Trinity 721 00:27:33,779 --> 00:27:31,389 as it were and you bring up even Trinity 722 00:27:37,469 --> 00:27:33,789 which is a DC comic probably one of my 723 00:27:39,509 --> 00:27:37,479 favorites by Matt Wagner yeah and I 724 00:27:43,820 --> 00:27:39,519 thought that was fascinating to think 725 00:27:46,739 --> 00:27:43,830 again we can tie god or gods into this 726 00:27:48,570 --> 00:27:46,749 modern mythology that we seem to be 727 00:27:51,869 --> 00:27:48,580 going through with comic books and even 728 00:27:54,239 --> 00:27:51,879 on top of that ufology can be a modern 729 00:27:56,249 --> 00:27:54,249 mythology as well so yeah a lot of 730 00:28:00,269 --> 00:27:56,259 interesting tie-ins that you came up 731 00:28:01,619 --> 00:28:00,279 with that for sure yeah yeah the idea 732 00:28:03,419 --> 00:28:01,629 like the triangle appears everywhere 733 00:28:06,810 --> 00:28:03,429 like later on in the book I tie it back 734 00:28:08,849 --> 00:28:06,820 to some of Chris Bledsoe science yeah 735 00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:08,859 and just in general just you people who 736 00:28:14,219 --> 00:28:11,289 claim them to seen aliens they have the 737 00:28:16,169 --> 00:28:14,229 triangle symbol on their chest and is it 738 00:28:17,879 --> 00:28:16,179 also a coincidence that some UFOs a 739 00:28:20,489 --> 00:28:17,889 triangle shaped or some of those shapes 740 00:28:22,409 --> 00:28:20,499 apparently on UFOs or triangles and the 741 00:28:23,940 --> 00:28:22,419 pyramids and and all the shapes and 742 00:28:26,039 --> 00:28:23,950 symbolism there's definitely a 743 00:28:28,379 --> 00:28:26,049 commonality there for sure and then so 744 00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:28,389 we see that reflected not just in UFO 745 00:28:32,339 --> 00:28:29,710 studies you see that reflected in 746 00:28:35,310 --> 00:28:32,349 mythology and religion and commonlook so 747 00:28:37,019 --> 00:28:35,320 it's all kind of somehow tied together 748 00:28:40,259 --> 00:28:37,029 and one of the points I make in the book 749 00:28:40,799 --> 00:28:40,269 is that like you know these gods per se 750 00:28:42,749 --> 00:28:40,809 you know 751 00:28:44,730 --> 00:28:42,759 maybe they never really die they're just 752 00:28:47,129 --> 00:28:44,740 living on now in a different form like 753 00:28:49,739 --> 00:28:47,139 aa culture you know people believe Thor 754 00:28:51,119 --> 00:28:49,749 was a real god I mean even you know in 755 00:28:53,639 --> 00:28:51,129 Nordic countries to this day there there 756 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:53,649 are statues you know celebrating him and 757 00:28:57,389 --> 00:28:55,210 when we know Thor we know from through 758 00:28:59,489 --> 00:28:57,399 Marvel Comics or the movies so does that 759 00:29:02,549 --> 00:28:59,499 how gods live on that there are pop 760 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:02,559 culture and through our mythology yeah 761 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:04,690 yeah that's a really really good point 762 00:29:09,629 --> 00:29:06,610 I've never really thought of it that way 763 00:29:11,639 --> 00:29:09,639 yeah Oh Thor love him love him so much 764 00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:11,649 probably one of my favorites um oh 765 00:29:17,009 --> 00:29:14,110 alright now this is another turn you 766 00:29:20,639 --> 00:29:17,019 take in this this chapter this beast of 767 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:20,649 a chapter wow man I loved it I loved it 768 00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:23,490 um you spoke to dr. gregory shushan and 769 00:29:28,769 --> 00:29:25,809 he's one of the leading authorities on 770 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:28,779 near-death experiences and he made some 771 00:29:33,570 --> 00:29:30,850 really interesting connections and you 772 00:29:37,019 --> 00:29:33,580 did as well with near-death experiences 773 00:29:40,499 --> 00:29:37,029 and the quote-unquote alien abduction 774 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:40,509 phenomenon and we know someone like 775 00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:43,090 Leslie Cain is also working in both 776 00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:46,240 worlds UFOs in near-death experiences as 777 00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:48,129 well so yeah what do you try to get 778 00:29:53,399 --> 00:29:50,110 across when you uh when you interviewed 779 00:29:55,499 --> 00:29:53,409 this doctor about this um so once again 780 00:29:59,070 --> 00:29:55,509 he's not like attritional UFO guy yes I 781 00:30:04,320 --> 00:29:59,080 will really be considered but you know 782 00:30:06,359 --> 00:30:04,330 he has a very rich vast pool of 783 00:30:07,859 --> 00:30:06,369 knowledge about other cultures and how 784 00:30:10,109 --> 00:30:07,869 they see things and especially when it 785 00:30:13,799 --> 00:30:10,119 comes to some of these phenomena so I 786 00:30:17,519 --> 00:30:13,809 really wanted to reach out to you know 787 00:30:19,470 --> 00:30:17,529 doctors and more academics academic 788 00:30:21,210 --> 00:30:19,480 professionals and professors and just to 789 00:30:23,129 --> 00:30:21,220 kind of get that at any point on it too 790 00:30:24,570 --> 00:30:23,139 because I feel like there's just so much 791 00:30:27,060 --> 00:30:24,580 more we can learn just by reading about 792 00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:27,070 other cultures and how they do things I 793 00:30:30,869 --> 00:30:28,809 did a whole story on them on my website 794 00:30:33,090 --> 00:30:30,879 I just kind of pulled from some of those 795 00:30:34,109 --> 00:30:33,100 quotes included the book - I think it 796 00:30:35,369 --> 00:30:34,119 was fascinating there's no there's a 797 00:30:37,739 --> 00:30:35,379 bunch of other people who've been doing 798 00:30:40,049 --> 00:30:37,749 this stuff for years and just seeing the 799 00:30:41,789 --> 00:30:40,059 commonalities between near-death 800 00:30:42,690 --> 00:30:41,799 experiences and other other weird 801 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:42,700 phenomena better 802 00:30:46,649 --> 00:30:45,490 that sounds somewhere - UFO abductions - 803 00:30:49,860 --> 00:30:46,659 like there are all these different 804 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:49,870 phenomena this somehow 805 00:30:56,370 --> 00:30:53,530 have this common thread yeah I know 806 00:30:58,740 --> 00:30:56,380 there's one individual in my book that 807 00:31:00,810 --> 00:30:58,750 is coming to mind immediately and that's 808 00:31:02,700 --> 00:31:00,820 a guy named Michael Carter and I 809 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:02,710 remember when I spoke to him on the 810 00:31:08,670 --> 00:31:05,890 phone one of the first things he told me 811 00:31:10,650 --> 00:31:08,680 about his abduction experiences he felt 812 00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:10,660 like he was in bed and he floated 813 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:12,310 outside of his body and he could 814 00:31:18,870 --> 00:31:15,490 actually like see himself still in bed 815 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:18,880 and boom right there that's kind of what 816 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:20,050 a lot of people who've had these 817 00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:22,210 near-death experiences have described 818 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:25,200 looking down at themselves almost or or 819 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:27,610 feeling like they floated out of the 820 00:31:32,790 --> 00:31:30,250 room so yeah man I I think it's been 821 00:31:35,460 --> 00:31:32,800 running in tandem with one another for a 822 00:31:37,940 --> 00:31:35,470 really long time and I just keep hearing 823 00:31:42,180 --> 00:31:37,950 more stories about these two phenomena 824 00:31:44,010 --> 00:31:42,190 probably being connected yeah you know 825 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:44,020 you see this in pop culture you see this 826 00:31:48,270 --> 00:31:45,970 in doctors fringe in the movie he astral 827 00:31:49,410 --> 00:31:48,280 projects themself multiple times you 828 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:49,420 know where did this come from they come 829 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:50,890 from some of the imagination no this is 830 00:31:55,620 --> 00:31:52,450 based off something that people believe 831 00:31:58,770 --> 00:31:55,630 that's possible yeah yeah exactly yep 832 00:32:01,740 --> 00:31:58,780 the truth is always a than fiction 833 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:01,750 hence the title oh oh another person 834 00:32:07,140 --> 00:32:04,210 that you quote in the book is folklorist 835 00:32:10,590 --> 00:32:07,150 Peter Raja wits am I saying that correct 836 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:10,600 I believe so yeah okay Roger it's about 837 00:32:15,660 --> 00:32:13,410 the extraordinary encounter Continuum 838 00:32:17,820 --> 00:32:15,670 Hypothesis no you're gonna have to 839 00:32:20,790 --> 00:32:17,830 explain this one to me man what is this 840 00:32:23,490 --> 00:32:20,800 hypothesis and yeah why'd you decide to 841 00:32:24,930 --> 00:32:23,500 include it in this chapter well there's 842 00:32:26,610 --> 00:32:24,940 so much I saw I included multiple 843 00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:26,620 hypotheses and I don't want to get too 844 00:32:31,770 --> 00:32:28,000 much to reveal with this I want the 845 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:31,780 reader to kind of yeah in terms of the 846 00:32:36,060 --> 00:32:33,610 context of the rest of the chapter well 847 00:32:39,540 --> 00:32:36,070 like in general I really reached out 848 00:32:43,290 --> 00:32:39,550 reach out I really did more research for 849 00:32:45,810 --> 00:32:43,300 people who have been studying folklore 850 00:32:47,700 --> 00:32:45,820 and different different types of 851 00:32:49,950 --> 00:32:47,710 phenomena and I think it's interesting 852 00:32:52,980 --> 00:32:49,960 to see that even you even are folklore 853 00:32:55,770 --> 00:32:52,990 mythology their view differently to the 854 00:32:56,730 --> 00:32:55,780 different cultures so for sure that's 855 00:32:58,680 --> 00:32:56,740 something I kind of want the reader to 856 00:32:59,910 --> 00:32:58,690 kind of discover on their own when they 857 00:33:02,520 --> 00:32:59,920 make those own connections because 858 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:02,530 that's like yeah I think the goal I said 859 00:33:04,759 --> 00:33:03,090 in order to go 860 00:33:06,649 --> 00:33:04,769 book is you want people to make the 861 00:33:08,779 --> 00:33:06,659 connection themselves so when they may 862 00:33:10,399 --> 00:33:08,789 read this theory in this idea they may 863 00:33:12,529 --> 00:33:10,409 be able to say oh how can I apply that 864 00:33:14,299 --> 00:33:12,539 to something I study or I believe or 865 00:33:15,950 --> 00:33:14,309 something that's happened to me which I 866 00:33:18,350 --> 00:33:15,960 previously thought was this but now is 867 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:18,360 this yeah exactly 868 00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:21,450 um well one of those places that is 869 00:33:27,769 --> 00:33:24,480 getting studied a lot recently has been 870 00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:27,779 skinwalker ranch now whether it's you 871 00:33:32,539 --> 00:33:30,240 know finding out that a lot of the money 872 00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:32,549 from the secret Pentagon UFO program 873 00:33:37,539 --> 00:33:35,129 went to studying skinwalker ranch or you 874 00:33:40,999 --> 00:33:37,549 look at something like the new owner 875 00:33:42,859 --> 00:33:41,009 Brendon Foucault and his work right now 876 00:33:45,019 --> 00:33:42,869 with the ranch the I believe the History 877 00:33:45,470 --> 00:33:45,029 Channel show just wrapped up its first 878 00:33:47,930 --> 00:33:45,480 season 879 00:33:50,239 --> 00:33:47,940 um but yeah man you were able to get a 880 00:33:52,460 --> 00:33:50,249 lot of people involved with the ranch in 881 00:33:53,690 --> 00:33:52,470 one way or another in the book so can 882 00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:53,700 you tell us a little about what it was 883 00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:56,220 like tackling skinwalker ranch and maybe 884 00:34:01,609 --> 00:33:59,279 maybe a little about what you learned in 885 00:34:02,989 --> 00:34:01,619 this section of the book so I think 886 00:34:05,149 --> 00:34:02,999 skinwalker ranch is something I had 887 00:34:07,540 --> 00:34:05,159 include because one of the things I talk 888 00:34:09,980 --> 00:34:07,550 about in the book is this idea of 889 00:34:11,930 --> 00:34:09,990 potentially you know multiple universes 890 00:34:13,730 --> 00:34:11,940 and parallel universes and I kind of 891 00:34:15,379 --> 00:34:13,740 covered that later on as well but I mean 892 00:34:18,050 --> 00:34:15,389 think about a skinwalker ranch is like 893 00:34:19,609 --> 00:34:18,060 this amusement park plethora paranormal 894 00:34:20,659 --> 00:34:19,619 you know all these things that it's like 895 00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:20,669 a best stuff you know all these things 896 00:34:25,490 --> 00:34:24,030 are kind of interested in so I feel like 897 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:25,500 I had included because you know I'm 898 00:34:29,210 --> 00:34:27,810 really so you give me some background we 899 00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:29,220 may have talked about this last time but 900 00:34:34,250 --> 00:34:32,399 I teach full time and one day we were 901 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:34,260 able to basically teach our co-workers a 902 00:34:38,030 --> 00:34:36,450 mean iguana and I hit them with like 903 00:34:41,059 --> 00:34:38,040 everything I wants all the weird stuff 904 00:34:43,970 --> 00:34:41,069 skinwalker ranch Hellyer oh you named I 905 00:34:45,770 --> 00:34:43,980 hit him so it's always interesting they 906 00:34:47,690 --> 00:34:45,780 kind of bring these ro they're more 907 00:34:49,849 --> 00:34:47,700 fringe elements I guess if you know what 908 00:34:51,770 --> 00:34:49,859 we study to people who have no idea what 909 00:34:53,990 --> 00:34:51,780 we're talking about just see their 910 00:34:55,460 --> 00:34:54,000 reaction but skinwalker ranch 911 00:34:56,780 --> 00:34:55,470 always fascinates like the average 912 00:34:58,010 --> 00:34:56,790 person like it really keeps your 913 00:34:58,760 --> 00:34:58,020 interest there's like wait what this 914 00:35:02,420 --> 00:34:58,770 place exists 915 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:02,430 like what but one of the things I really 916 00:35:05,540 --> 00:35:03,930 wanted to dive deeper is it how the 917 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:05,550 ranch is perceived so I was able to get 918 00:35:08,839 --> 00:35:07,170 kind of something a good journalist as 919 00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:08,849 you get down try you to multiple sides 920 00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:11,250 of the story and also what it 921 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:12,480 potentially could be happening there 922 00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:13,170 that's some 923 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:16,710 hypothesize than the hypothesis are some 924 00:35:20,510 --> 00:35:18,210 of the things I'd theorize myself that I 925 00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:20,520 think could be it I draw some 926 00:35:24,380 --> 00:35:22,140 comparisons what's happening in Hellyer 927 00:35:27,710 --> 00:35:24,390 Kentucky I think both of them are very 928 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:27,720 similar secret lands where we're stuff 929 00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:32,010 happens as well but yeah you know Travis 930 00:35:37,670 --> 00:35:34,470 Taylor was one of the scientists who led 931 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:37,680 the study on of the history show I was 932 00:35:39,319 --> 00:35:38,970 able to get a quote from him as well as 933 00:35:40,670 --> 00:35:39,329 new owner 934 00:35:42,410 --> 00:35:40,680 Brandon through Google and it's 935 00:35:44,630 --> 00:35:42,420 interesting to see 936 00:35:46,609 --> 00:35:44,640 Travis's perspective because you know 937 00:35:47,660 --> 00:35:46,619 he's a scientist he's worked for URIs 938 00:35:50,180 --> 00:35:47,670 work for the government 939 00:35:52,130 --> 00:35:50,190 and he's someone you know the surface it 940 00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:52,140 has kind of a skeptical mind but he's 941 00:35:57,530 --> 00:35:55,200 also a science fiction writer so he'll I 942 00:35:59,960 --> 00:35:57,540 don't know in turns out I had no idea 943 00:36:02,150 --> 00:35:59,970 till I interviewed him I did the in 944 00:36:04,430 --> 00:36:02,160 recall like he's were multiple science 945 00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:04,440 fiction books I had no idea so I think 946 00:36:07,849 --> 00:36:06,000 it makes sense for somebody like him 947 00:36:10,099 --> 00:36:07,859 who's a science guy to be best 948 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:10,109 open-minded because once again there's a 949 00:36:14,510 --> 00:36:11,970 fictional component in his head to kind 950 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:14,520 of you know say hey you know what this 951 00:36:18,650 --> 00:36:16,650 this study is maybe not too weird for me 952 00:36:20,510 --> 00:36:18,660 to do let's let's do some real science 953 00:36:22,309 --> 00:36:20,520 on it and once again you know this is 954 00:36:24,530 --> 00:36:22,319 they're running the same problems that 955 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:24,540 niche did that while this phenomena 956 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:26,970 can't be contained and that doesn't mean 957 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:29,490 it's it's not true or an accurate I know 958 00:36:32,450 --> 00:36:30,930 one of the people in your apology got 959 00:36:33,980 --> 00:36:32,460 really respect you know there's adults 960 00:36:36,530 --> 00:36:33,990 of bolts guys and science is the only 961 00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:36,540 way I've heard this from multiple people 962 00:36:40,039 --> 00:36:38,400 I think Jeffrey crapple was one of them 963 00:36:41,180 --> 00:36:40,049 who said to me - it may be multiple 964 00:36:43,549 --> 00:36:41,190 people the book may have said say at 965 00:36:45,109 --> 00:36:43,559 some point and he says science is good 966 00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:45,119 for some things not for everything 967 00:36:51,049 --> 00:36:47,730 and I was like but that makes a lot of 968 00:36:52,670 --> 00:36:51,059 sense because if science may not be the 969 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:52,680 be-all end-all of what we're studying 970 00:36:56,270 --> 00:36:55,290 here it may not be able to do so so then 971 00:36:59,059 --> 00:36:56,280 we may have to look at you know 972 00:37:00,470 --> 00:36:59,069 humanities and maybe even spiritualism 973 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:00,480 maybe something new way stuff that years 974 00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:02,010 ago we would have thought was crazy you 975 00:37:09,289 --> 00:37:05,510 know maybe we give that some some more 976 00:37:10,579 --> 00:37:09,299 freedom so yeah that's it's funny you 977 00:37:13,370 --> 00:37:10,589 mentioned that I mean throughout the 978 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:13,380 years of my UFO work I feel like a lot 979 00:37:19,069 --> 00:37:16,530 of UFO researchers or people who get 980 00:37:21,349 --> 00:37:19,079 into the topic they start very rigid 981 00:37:23,809 --> 00:37:21,359 very nuts and bolts like I want that 982 00:37:25,359 --> 00:37:23,819 craft I want to like I want to trace 983 00:37:26,930 --> 00:37:25,369 evidence I want something I can 984 00:37:29,059 --> 00:37:26,940 scientifically 985 00:37:31,220 --> 00:37:29,069 explore and that's that's fine that's 986 00:37:33,710 --> 00:37:31,230 how it works and then as you get more 987 00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:33,720 steeped in the field it just starts to 988 00:37:38,150 --> 00:37:35,609 get weirder which I think the phenomenon 989 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:38,160 that encapsulate s' the phenomenon 990 00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:40,770 itself you sort of get a little glimpse 991 00:37:44,990 --> 00:37:42,960 at first and then it just busts wide 992 00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:45,000 open and I think you're right I think a 993 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:47,250 lot of people including myself I always 994 00:37:53,329 --> 00:37:50,970 brushed aside the the weirder aspects or 995 00:37:55,339 --> 00:37:53,339 the more high strangeness aspects of the 996 00:37:58,940 --> 00:37:55,349 phenomenon or like you said the kind of 997 00:38:01,040 --> 00:37:58,950 New Age mysticism feel to all of it um 998 00:38:05,270 --> 00:38:01,050 but I am Telling You I mean I'm like 999 00:38:07,609 --> 00:38:05,280 what 12 15 years in no into the UFO 1000 00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:07,619 topic exploring it every day of my life 1001 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:11,730 and I just keep those layers back on of 1002 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:13,290 the things I rejected when I first 1003 00:38:17,089 --> 00:38:15,690 started looking into this topic so I 1004 00:38:20,059 --> 00:38:17,099 think you're right I think we're kind of 1005 00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:20,069 entering into a new era of looking at 1006 00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:21,839 these things again from a whole 1007 00:38:25,609 --> 00:38:24,089 different perspective and finding that 1008 00:38:28,220 --> 00:38:25,619 it probably has a lot more to do with it 1009 00:38:29,540 --> 00:38:28,230 than we first bought it yeah no I better 1010 00:38:31,250 --> 00:38:29,550 you hit the nail on the head and this is 1011 00:38:33,140 --> 00:38:31,260 something you know even resources for 1012 00:38:35,089 --> 00:38:33,150 longer that I have and I was thinking 1013 00:38:36,230 --> 00:38:35,099 about this the other day I you know I'm 1014 00:38:37,849 --> 00:38:36,240 doing you know a lot of press for the 1015 00:38:39,710 --> 00:38:37,859 book and sometime here you get kind of 1016 00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:39,720 like not you know like talking your 1017 00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:41,130 photos great but when you're doing it 1018 00:38:45,380 --> 00:38:43,440 you're in trenches sometimes just a lot 1019 00:38:46,940 --> 00:38:45,390 you know sounds like people been doing 1020 00:38:48,589 --> 00:38:46,950 this for 30 years like how did he not 1021 00:38:51,530 --> 00:38:48,599 get burned out you know because it's so 1022 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:51,540 I mean I K all right how can you study 1023 00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:54,210 the same cases over and over and over 1024 00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:56,880 again and get the same result so I think 1025 00:39:00,740 --> 00:38:58,410 it's great that a lot of us are doing 1026 00:39:01,910 --> 00:39:00,750 things differently now stranger than 1027 00:39:03,559 --> 00:39:01,920 fiction I don't want to write another 1028 00:39:05,900 --> 00:39:03,569 official UFO go I want to do something 1029 00:39:07,309 --> 00:39:05,910 different like when I read your 1030 00:39:08,599 --> 00:39:07,319 somewhere in the sky for the first time 1031 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:08,609 I think this is Riggs it's different 1032 00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:10,290 like your approach was different and 1033 00:39:13,430 --> 00:39:12,089 some of the cases you covered were 1034 00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:13,440 French and I think that's what we need 1035 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:15,119 we need things that are fresh because I 1036 00:39:18,980 --> 00:39:16,650 feel like some of these cases would be 1037 00:39:21,020 --> 00:39:18,990 to death for years it's like you know 1038 00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:21,030 how much work we read about Betty and 1039 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:23,250 Barney Hill at this point you know like 1040 00:39:26,930 --> 00:39:25,770 you know be like it's the same cases 1041 00:39:28,910 --> 00:39:26,940 over and over again so I think it's good 1042 00:39:31,069 --> 00:39:28,920 that a lot of us are trying to do things 1043 00:39:32,569 --> 00:39:31,079 differently and I said in this case in 1044 00:39:35,420 --> 00:39:32,579 my book I really wanted to kind of bring 1045 00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:35,430 in some fictional elements and say hey 1046 00:39:40,010 --> 00:39:38,160 look this this isn't really too far off 1047 00:39:41,980 --> 00:39:40,020 as well I was you know I was influenced 1048 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:41,990 by some other books that I've read 1049 00:39:48,350 --> 00:39:44,610 passport - we're gonna need by Jeff 1050 00:39:49,450 --> 00:39:48,360 Bowie and Jeffrey crippled mutants of 1051 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:49,460 mystics 1052 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:51,570 those are two books that do a better job 1053 00:39:58,520 --> 00:39:54,810 than I do of basically saying hey look 1054 00:40:00,680 --> 00:39:58,530 this weird stuff intersects with with 1055 00:40:02,270 --> 00:40:00,690 the reality they do a way better job of 1056 00:40:04,190 --> 00:40:02,280 that than I do but I wanted to kind of 1057 00:40:06,230 --> 00:40:04,200 tie it into you know more of our 1058 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:06,240 modern-day pop culture and you know the 1059 00:40:09,590 --> 00:40:07,530 stuff that's happening currently you 1060 00:40:11,150 --> 00:40:09,600 know I think the you know the stuff 1061 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:11,160 that's been dominating the news for you 1062 00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:12,450 know said that you know we follow with 1063 00:40:16,580 --> 00:40:14,730 the Pentagon UFOs and the tic-tacs I 1064 00:40:18,530 --> 00:40:16,590 think I mean that's like something 1065 00:40:20,060 --> 00:40:18,540 that's current something II was talking 1066 00:40:21,470 --> 00:40:20,070 about but you can make caramels - that 1067 00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:21,480 may be something you've seen in a movie 1068 00:40:27,410 --> 00:40:24,720 before as well so I really wanted to do 1069 00:40:29,150 --> 00:40:27,420 do something current and something where 1070 00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:29,160 even if you don't like UFOs you like pop 1071 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:30,240 culture you're gonna pick it up and 1072 00:40:34,010 --> 00:40:31,290 you're gonna get it you may learn 1073 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:34,020 something about UFOs and it could be 1074 00:40:38,660 --> 00:40:36,330 zoology in the paranormal yeah 1075 00:40:40,340 --> 00:40:38,670 you may go watch stranger things and say 1076 00:40:41,660 --> 00:40:40,350 oh well I read it in trans into the 1077 00:40:43,580 --> 00:40:41,670 fiction that had no idea that this is 1078 00:40:45,170 --> 00:40:43,590 based off a real place where these 1079 00:40:46,970 --> 00:40:45,180 experiments supposedly happen like 1080 00:40:49,910 --> 00:40:46,980 that's what I want I want the reader you 1081 00:40:52,370 --> 00:40:49,920 know to kind of learn something about 1082 00:40:53,630 --> 00:40:52,380 what we study as well as learning stuff 1083 00:40:57,470 --> 00:40:53,640 from the stuff that they're interesting 1084 00:40:59,300 --> 00:40:57,480 like Star Wars or Star Trek or Sabrina 1085 00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:59,310 the Teenage Witch or Harry Potter or any 1086 00:41:01,850 --> 00:41:00,480 of those you know the fictional 1087 00:41:03,230 --> 00:41:01,860 franchises because they're all based off 1088 00:41:05,540 --> 00:41:03,240 something yeah 1089 00:41:08,540 --> 00:41:05,550 that's such a good point I mean I just 1090 00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:08,550 started watching Doctor Who for the very 1091 00:41:14,540 --> 00:41:11,760 first time in my life yesterday and I'm 1092 00:41:17,810 --> 00:41:14,550 book man I'm like seven episodes in 1093 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:17,820 already and already I'm like why did I 1094 00:41:22,430 --> 00:41:19,890 deny this for so long I heard it was 1095 00:41:24,740 --> 00:41:22,440 about a time-traveling doctor or like 1096 00:41:28,780 --> 00:41:24,750 who gives a [\h__\h] I didn't even know that 1097 00:41:31,340 --> 00:41:28,790 it was um about an alien so right there 1098 00:41:33,230 --> 00:41:31,350 yeah he's an alien 1099 00:41:34,670 --> 00:41:33,240 the doctor is an alien spoiler alert for 1100 00:41:37,730 --> 00:41:34,680 anyone who hasn't watched Doctor Who for 1101 00:41:40,910 --> 00:41:37,740 the last what 50 years now or 40 years 1102 00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:40,920 um but something that was brought up in 1103 00:41:46,070 --> 00:41:43,680 the show is this idea that time is not 1104 00:41:50,210 --> 00:41:46,080 linear that the the doctor travels 1105 00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:50,220 through time in space and that you know 1106 00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:52,079 it's wibbly-wobbly is he 1107 00:41:59,209 --> 00:41:56,249 and that really stuck with me because it 1108 00:42:01,609 --> 00:41:59,219 got me thinking okay this fictional 1109 00:42:04,249 --> 00:42:01,619 television show Doctor Who it's been on 1110 00:42:06,949 --> 00:42:04,259 for decades and decades it's got a huge 1111 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:06,959 following and people just adore it and 1112 00:42:11,539 --> 00:42:09,930 they live their lives by it and I'm I'm 1113 00:42:13,759 --> 00:42:11,549 looking at some of the things I'm 1114 00:42:16,940 --> 00:42:13,769 hearing in the show about you know time 1115 00:42:19,670 --> 00:42:16,950 not being linear and not being temporal 1116 00:42:22,940 --> 00:42:19,680 and I'm like oh my god this is one of 1117 00:42:24,949 --> 00:42:22,950 the biggest theories in ufology is how 1118 00:42:27,199 --> 00:42:24,959 our aliens getting to our planet if they 1119 00:42:30,079 --> 00:42:27,209 can't travel these vast distances that 1120 00:42:33,259 --> 00:42:30,089 scientists say are impossible and in 1121 00:42:36,199 --> 00:42:33,269 time not going literally lit linearly I 1122 00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:36,209 can't even say the word excuse me um but 1123 00:42:39,859 --> 00:42:37,920 yeah this idea that now I can even 1124 00:42:42,949 --> 00:42:39,869 connect Doctor Who one of the most 1125 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:42,959 ridiculous things I've ever seen 1126 00:42:48,229 --> 00:42:45,690 with my current work in ufology it's 1127 00:42:49,609 --> 00:42:48,239 it's I love it I love it it's crazy like 1128 00:42:51,049 --> 00:42:49,619 the more you kind of read about this 1129 00:42:52,430 --> 00:42:51,059 stuff the more you start seeing it in 1130 00:42:54,949 --> 00:42:52,440 these places you would expect like 1131 00:42:56,539 --> 00:42:54,959 children's cartoons Saturday morning 1132 00:42:58,249 --> 00:42:56,549 cartoons like I've been relaxing the old 1133 00:43:00,319 --> 00:42:58,259 Justice League Unlimited cartoons in the 1134 00:43:01,699 --> 00:43:00,329 morning and every once in a while I kill 1135 00:43:04,039 --> 00:43:01,709 shot me say wow I can't believe that 1136 00:43:06,229 --> 00:43:04,049 they're there they're bringing this up 1137 00:43:07,849 --> 00:43:06,239 or they're they're covering this or it's 1138 00:43:10,279 --> 00:43:07,859 you know for there's something from 1139 00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:10,289 mythology or something from you know 1140 00:43:14,930 --> 00:43:13,049 something a physicist studied so it's 1141 00:43:16,219 --> 00:43:14,940 really cool to see that played out you 1142 00:43:18,499 --> 00:43:16,229 know and even like Saturday morning 1143 00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:18,509 cartoons that are meant for kids yeah 1144 00:43:24,949 --> 00:43:20,910 yeah you mentioned Martian Manhunter in 1145 00:43:28,849 --> 00:43:24,959 the book you mentioned Wonder Woman and 1146 00:43:31,339 --> 00:43:28,859 the x-men like there's this comic book 1147 00:43:33,259 --> 00:43:31,349 world we live in and a lot of people 1148 00:43:36,289 --> 00:43:33,269 have lived in for a really long time I 1149 00:43:38,599 --> 00:43:36,299 think it's these bigger heavier 1150 00:43:41,029 --> 00:43:38,609 questions that the comics have always 1151 00:43:43,130 --> 00:43:41,039 sort of had are being amplified in the 1152 00:43:45,769 --> 00:43:43,140 movies who are seeing because you have 1153 00:43:48,319 --> 00:43:45,779 young directors getting involved young 1154 00:43:50,059 --> 00:43:48,329 writers who are asking new questions of 1155 00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:50,069 these characters and I think we're 1156 00:43:54,949 --> 00:43:52,319 seeing that in the field of ufology as 1157 00:43:57,620 --> 00:43:54,959 well like you said Betty and Barney Hill 1158 00:43:59,660 --> 00:43:57,630 Rose whoa Rendlesham we've heard every 1159 00:44:02,269 --> 00:43:59,670 explanation possible for these things 1160 00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:02,279 until you get new people involved and 1161 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:04,079 that's why you have someone like let's 1162 00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:05,850 say at the rebel of ufology 1163 00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:08,250 Nick Redfern coming up with alternate 1164 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:10,800 theories on the Rendlesham case being a 1165 00:44:17,420 --> 00:44:13,770 top-secret experiment or Roswell being a 1166 00:44:20,570 --> 00:44:17,430 Russian or you know Japanese experiment 1167 00:44:22,340 --> 00:44:20,580 on the United States so if we don't have 1168 00:44:23,870 --> 00:44:22,350 these alternate theories we're just 1169 00:44:25,780 --> 00:44:23,880 gonna be stuck in a rut like you said 1170 00:44:27,860 --> 00:44:25,790 and we're never gonna grow I believe 1171 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:27,870 it's a great point you made to about 1172 00:44:32,510 --> 00:44:30,690 these younger writers and directors as 1173 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:32,520 well as younger researchers here we're 1174 00:44:35,990 --> 00:44:34,650 approaching things differently but I 1175 00:44:38,330 --> 00:44:36,000 think it's great I mean he said you know 1176 00:44:39,770 --> 00:44:38,340 we're we're watching all the the Marvel 1177 00:44:41,990 --> 00:44:39,780 films right now and there's something in 1178 00:44:43,370 --> 00:44:42,000 each film I can point at saying this is 1179 00:44:44,150 --> 00:44:43,380 where they got this room this is where 1180 00:44:47,330 --> 00:44:44,160 they got this from 1181 00:44:51,230 --> 00:44:47,340 so it's all based on either a science or 1182 00:44:53,330 --> 00:44:51,240 study a theory of myth it's all based on 1183 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:53,340 something I think one of the quotes I 1184 00:44:58,840 --> 00:44:55,050 have in the book is myths lose their 1185 00:45:00,680 --> 00:44:58,850 power if if they're not repeated yeah 1186 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:00,690 that was actually one of my favorite 1187 00:45:05,150 --> 00:45:03,450 comic books is Batman no man's land and 1188 00:45:07,490 --> 00:45:05,160 I think that's true I think you know we 1189 00:45:10,490 --> 00:45:07,500 don't talk or get up and it becomes just 1190 00:45:12,890 --> 00:45:10,500 members right right that's a really 1191 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:12,900 really good point um what kind of ending 1192 00:45:18,350 --> 00:45:15,930 the the comic book I guess part of this 1193 00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:18,360 conversation Mike uh you bring up a 1194 00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:19,710 really interesting thing in a 1195 00:45:23,380 --> 00:45:21,510 supplemental chapter at the end of the 1196 00:45:26,030 --> 00:45:23,390 book and we won't give away too much but 1197 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:26,040 someone who got in contact with you I 1198 00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:27,930 remember early on when this first 1199 00:45:32,450 --> 00:45:30,720 happened you came to me nor like have 1200 00:45:36,020 --> 00:45:32,460 you ever heard this guy story and when 1201 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:36,030 you shared it with me I was like whoa so 1202 00:45:40,940 --> 00:45:38,010 yeah maybe could you give us a little 1203 00:45:43,940 --> 00:45:40,950 idea of who this person was it's 1204 00:45:46,850 --> 00:45:43,950 connection with Captain America maybe 1205 00:45:50,060 --> 00:45:46,860 and why you decided to put this chapter 1206 00:45:54,980 --> 00:45:50,070 at the end of the book so I did the 1207 00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:54,990 story on my website years ago and I was 1208 00:45:58,760 --> 00:45:56,730 skeptical running it just because it was 1209 00:45:59,690 --> 00:45:58,770 something that was really it's kind of 1210 00:46:02,600 --> 00:45:59,700 stranger than fiction 1211 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:02,610 but somebody at MUFON interviewed him 1212 00:46:05,240 --> 00:46:04,170 did a video interview with them years 1213 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:05,250 ago 1214 00:46:09,050 --> 00:46:07,290 MUFON really never did anything with it 1215 00:46:13,730 --> 00:46:09,060 a guy just really suit himself like on 1216 00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:13,740 his Vimeo or YouTube and the guy's name 1217 00:46:17,690 --> 00:46:15,330 is da Seidenberg he reached out to me 1218 00:46:20,090 --> 00:46:17,700 and he showed me the video interview 1219 00:46:21,530 --> 00:46:20,100 the stuff he says allegedly happened it 1220 00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:21,540 it's right away I think this sounds like 1221 00:46:26,810 --> 00:46:23,760 Captain America's origin story only with 1222 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:26,820 more of a alien twister and I guess I 1223 00:46:32,060 --> 00:46:28,650 was really skeptical of some of the 1224 00:46:34,610 --> 00:46:32,070 claims of this guy yes says he and he 1225 00:46:39,110 --> 00:46:34,620 said but he was able to back up some of 1226 00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:39,120 the things that were able to prove who 1227 00:46:44,060 --> 00:46:41,310 he was and yeah you did serve in the 1228 00:46:46,310 --> 00:46:44,070 military and his health which was for 1229 00:46:48,590 --> 00:46:46,320 somebody his age is very phenomenal 1230 00:46:51,380 --> 00:46:48,600 I had doctors and nurses looked over to 1231 00:46:54,260 --> 00:46:51,390 to make sure everything was okay as well 1232 00:46:56,930 --> 00:46:54,270 so basically it's his origin you know 1233 00:47:00,670 --> 00:46:56,940 his story is you know you edges that he 1234 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:00,680 was a test subject and I'm right around 1235 00:47:08,030 --> 00:47:06,090 time around Roswell time and he was yet 1236 00:47:10,130 --> 00:47:08,040 given a serum and it almost sounds like 1237 00:47:11,450 --> 00:47:10,140 the super serum that Captain America 1238 00:47:13,790 --> 00:47:11,460 takes only in this case I mean he gets 1239 00:47:17,500 --> 00:47:13,800 super strength or those abilities but it 1240 00:47:21,500 --> 00:47:17,510 was a he was able to his cognition 1241 00:47:23,630 --> 00:47:21,510 improved and he's aged very gracefully 1242 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:23,640 so it's and there's some other elements 1243 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:24,690 to his story I said there are more 1244 00:47:29,030 --> 00:47:27,810 science fiction too but right away you 1245 00:47:29,690 --> 00:47:29,040 know I was like man this is this is 1246 00:47:33,140 --> 00:47:29,700 crazy 1247 00:47:34,460 --> 00:47:33,150 but he was very sincere as well so you 1248 00:47:36,980 --> 00:47:34,470 know what if he's pulling a hoax 1249 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:36,990 who knows we don't know that but I 1250 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:38,610 really wanted to include a story as a 1251 00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:41,370 bonus because I think it really wants 1252 00:47:44,900 --> 00:47:43,170 the reader to read it and decide to go 1253 00:47:49,460 --> 00:47:44,910 back to say hey you know what is this 1254 00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:49,470 fiction versus fact or or is this you 1255 00:47:54,770 --> 00:47:52,170 know what is this it's just a sweet old 1256 00:47:56,570 --> 00:47:54,780 man who's telling the truth or or 1257 00:47:59,360 --> 00:47:56,580 whatever but yeah I definitely wanted to 1258 00:48:00,830 --> 00:47:59,370 include it as a bonus chapter in the 1259 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:00,840 book is that I thought it would it 1260 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:02,850 really ties in this idea if stranger 1261 00:48:05,870 --> 00:48:04,170 than fiction this is story that has 1262 00:48:07,630 --> 00:48:05,880 changes in fiction I want the reader to 1263 00:48:10,610 --> 00:48:07,640 decide hey you believe this guy or not 1264 00:48:12,410 --> 00:48:10,620 yeah yeah I think that's a kind of a 1265 00:48:15,350 --> 00:48:12,420 good way to encapsulate the whole book 1266 00:48:17,810 --> 00:48:15,360 is this um this idea of blurred lines so 1267 00:48:19,550 --> 00:48:17,820 um kind of wrapping up the conversation 1268 00:48:21,860 --> 00:48:19,560 on the book Mike what do you want 1269 00:48:23,990 --> 00:48:21,870 readers to really take away from not 1270 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:24,000 only stranger than fiction but this 1271 00:48:28,370 --> 00:48:25,530 trilogy of books that you've written 1272 00:48:30,130 --> 00:48:28,380 there they're unlike anything else 1273 00:48:34,079 --> 00:48:30,140 I think that's ever been written on the 1274 00:48:39,730 --> 00:48:34,089 photopic you took a very clear 1275 00:48:42,579 --> 00:48:39,740 journalistic and and very what's the 1276 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:42,589 right word for this challenging approach 1277 00:48:48,099 --> 00:48:45,170 to the phenomena and it wasn't just 1278 00:48:51,220 --> 00:48:48,109 here's a case on this day it happened 1279 00:48:53,049 --> 00:48:51,230 cool like you really got in there and 1280 00:48:56,890 --> 00:48:53,059 tried to look at it from every angle so 1281 00:48:59,950 --> 00:48:56,900 yeah what what is punk rock in UFOs this 1282 00:49:01,779 --> 00:48:59,960 trilogy of books and why should why 1283 00:49:05,140 --> 00:49:01,789 should people buy the books man let's 1284 00:49:09,029 --> 00:49:05,150 sell it so the general idea was behind 1285 00:49:11,170 --> 00:49:09,039 the title punk rock in ufos was the 1286 00:49:21,900 --> 00:49:11,180 sorry laughing at some of the comments 1287 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:21,910 are really fun so the idea was you know 1288 00:49:25,690 --> 00:49:24,170 necessary the music but the rebellious 1289 00:49:27,940 --> 00:49:25,700 nature how we were bill against certain 1290 00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:27,950 beliefs that you know we're kind of 1291 00:49:32,740 --> 00:49:29,510 forced upon us and we're we believe in 1292 00:49:35,650 --> 00:49:32,750 from the start sounds a general idea 1293 00:49:37,359 --> 00:49:35,660 around it but this book yeah I build on 1294 00:49:39,279 --> 00:49:37,369 the other books but this is the book to 1295 00:49:41,859 --> 00:49:39,289 get because it really builds on what 1296 00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:41,869 started and the first two books you know 1297 00:49:44,950 --> 00:49:43,130 the first one was about rebelling 1298 00:49:46,930 --> 00:49:44,960 against these beliefs the second one was 1299 00:49:49,900 --> 00:49:46,940 about trying to find commonality between 1300 00:49:51,549 --> 00:49:49,910 UFO people and you know the common 1301 00:49:53,049 --> 00:49:51,559 populace and this one is really just 1302 00:49:55,450 --> 00:49:53,059 trying to normalize the idea of the 1303 00:49:57,970 --> 00:49:55,460 paranormal so if the average person you 1304 00:50:00,130 --> 00:49:57,980 know reads a comic book or yeah sees a 1305 00:50:02,890 --> 00:50:00,140 movie or a science fiction movie and 1306 00:50:04,210 --> 00:50:02,900 then they go back and read their the 1307 00:50:07,359 --> 00:50:04,220 Greek mythology and they make a 1308 00:50:08,620 --> 00:50:07,369 connection or they read a UFO study and 1309 00:50:10,089 --> 00:50:08,630 they make a connection that maybe some 1310 00:50:12,849 --> 00:50:10,099 things seem they're moving then they 1311 00:50:15,819 --> 00:50:12,859 realize kind of hey look you know these 1312 00:50:18,789 --> 00:50:15,829 fictional components are there's some 1313 00:50:20,069 --> 00:50:18,799 awesome nonfiction as well so all 1314 00:50:23,049 --> 00:50:20,079 throughout time this has been happening 1315 00:50:24,190 --> 00:50:23,059 so it's I really want the reader to take 1316 00:50:25,839 --> 00:50:24,200 that home but hey you know the 1317 00:50:28,870 --> 00:50:25,849 paranormal really isn't that weird it 1318 00:50:30,430 --> 00:50:28,880 just only we've changed you know a 1319 00:50:33,039 --> 00:50:30,440 society to change culture change how we 1320 00:50:34,660 --> 00:50:33,049 viewed things has changed you know years 1321 00:50:38,049 --> 00:50:34,670 ago this really wasn't weird to some 1322 00:50:39,940 --> 00:50:38,059 people but nowadays you know this is the 1323 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:39,950 our society is totally different so I 1324 00:50:44,540 --> 00:50:42,210 want us to kind of go back to that idea 1325 00:50:46,430 --> 00:50:44,550 you know it's okay to accept some of 1326 00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:46,440 these weird elements that we may have 1327 00:50:50,660 --> 00:50:47,730 been told that there's no way this can 1328 00:50:52,490 --> 00:50:50,670 exist because at one point people 1329 00:50:55,460 --> 00:50:52,500 believed it to be true and maybe it is 1330 00:50:58,430 --> 00:50:55,470 maybe this whole time it's been hiding 1331 00:51:00,859 --> 00:50:58,440 hiding in silence or it lives through 1332 00:51:03,710 --> 00:51:00,869 our pop culture who knows yeah yeah 1333 00:51:07,339 --> 00:51:03,720 absolutely it just it just keeps going I 1334 00:51:10,089 --> 00:51:07,349 think well in writing these free books 1335 00:51:12,380 --> 00:51:10,099 Mike I gotta ask you as an author and 1336 00:51:15,740 --> 00:51:12,390 someone who's interviewed people in 1337 00:51:17,420 --> 00:51:15,750 every walk of life about UFOs now do you 1338 00:51:20,150 --> 00:51:17,430 think you're any closer to getting 1339 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:20,160 answers or what what is the end goal 1340 00:51:25,070 --> 00:51:23,130 with exploring this mystery I know which 1341 00:51:27,050 --> 00:51:25,080 of us has our own reasons for getting 1342 00:51:29,859 --> 00:51:27,060 into this stuff but yeah where do you 1343 00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:29,869 stand today after three books of 1344 00:51:36,589 --> 00:51:34,170 dissecting this mystery and where did 1345 00:51:38,180 --> 00:51:36,599 you come out on the other side yeah it's 1346 00:51:40,220 --> 00:51:38,190 you know it's great as we talked about 1347 00:51:42,109 --> 00:51:40,230 earlier how when you first get into this 1348 00:51:43,490 --> 00:51:42,119 stuff you want the nuts and bolts you 1349 00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:43,500 know you want the proof you want the 1350 00:51:47,210 --> 00:51:45,450 hard evidence but the more you realize 1351 00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:47,220 you know the more you study the more you 1352 00:51:51,109 --> 00:51:48,570 realize that that may not be attainable 1353 00:51:53,690 --> 00:51:51,119 or in a way that you know traditionally 1354 00:51:55,250 --> 00:51:53,700 science attains it so you know you start 1355 00:51:56,900 --> 00:51:55,260 opening up your mind more to some of the 1356 00:51:59,770 --> 00:51:56,910 other you know it was consider the 1357 00:52:01,579 --> 00:51:59,780 fringe elements that we study as well so 1358 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:01,589 you know it's well I think when I was 1359 00:52:04,940 --> 00:52:03,210 writing this book and I finished it like 1360 00:52:06,829 --> 00:52:04,950 what else can I say about UFOs at this 1361 00:52:08,810 --> 00:52:06,839 point like nothing I'm not gonna write a 1362 00:52:10,460 --> 00:52:08,820 book ever again but I'm like this is the 1363 00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:10,470 last book I wrote on the subject is 1364 00:52:14,570 --> 00:52:12,510 great it's a great way to go out I mean 1365 00:52:16,579 --> 00:52:14,580 as I mean I'm gonna stop you know you 1366 00:52:18,349 --> 00:52:16,589 know doing interviews and stories of how 1367 00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:18,359 crappy photocopies the subject is still 1368 00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:20,490 super interesting but I really wanted 1369 00:52:25,220 --> 00:52:23,130 this book to be different and definitely 1370 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:25,230 take a different approach to it because 1371 00:52:27,950 --> 00:52:26,010 I guess that you know I was saying 1372 00:52:30,170 --> 00:52:27,960 earlier yeah there's so there's only so 1373 00:52:32,329 --> 00:52:30,180 much we can do about these these cases 1374 00:52:36,109 --> 00:52:32,339 and that we eat that would be to death 1375 00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:36,119 for years so I think it's you know this 1376 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:39,089 was my way of putting everything that 1377 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:41,130 previously done and you know as well as 1378 00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:44,490 looking at something new and yeah like 1379 00:52:47,210 --> 00:52:45,810 yeah after writing a book I was like 1380 00:52:49,339 --> 00:52:47,220 well what else can I say at this point 1381 00:52:51,020 --> 00:52:49,349 feel like I've said everything I can say 1382 00:52:53,570 --> 00:52:51,030 so far you know who knows I may change 1383 00:52:55,099 --> 00:52:53,580 five years from now but it's like I felt 1384 00:52:55,559 --> 00:52:55,109 you know I feel like if I was going to 1385 00:52:59,489 --> 00:52:55,569 write a book 1386 00:53:01,680 --> 00:52:59,499 again a great way to go out absolutely 1387 00:53:03,689 --> 00:53:01,690 yeah I think it was a it was a good cap 1388 00:53:06,180 --> 00:53:03,699 on everything that you theorized from 1389 00:53:08,029 --> 00:53:06,190 the very beginning up until now and of 1390 00:53:10,469 --> 00:53:08,039 course like the journey is never done 1391 00:53:14,099 --> 00:53:10,479 the books will continue the research 1392 00:53:16,199 --> 00:53:14,109 will continue and I know your work will 1393 00:53:18,449 --> 00:53:16,209 continue over a punk rock in UFOs so I 1394 00:53:20,849 --> 00:53:18,459 got to ask you what comes next for the 1395 00:53:22,529 --> 00:53:20,859 website are you working on anything over 1396 00:53:24,630 --> 00:53:22,539 there or I would assume the book has 1397 00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:24,640 been taken up most seer time but yeah 1398 00:53:29,309 --> 00:53:27,910 what's next for Punk rocking UFOs the 1399 00:53:31,499 --> 00:53:29,319 books been taking it all the time for 1400 00:53:32,819 --> 00:53:31,509 sure you know how it is when of books 1401 00:53:34,769 --> 00:53:32,829 about to launch you're working on it 1402 00:53:36,599 --> 00:53:34,779 like you know writing the books the easy 1403 00:53:38,130 --> 00:53:36,609 part that's that that's me that is easy 1404 00:53:40,650 --> 00:53:38,140 parts the Whitney waiting for the book 1405 00:53:42,509 --> 00:53:40,660 to come out the layout the production 1406 00:53:44,099 --> 00:53:42,519 all those elements that's though that's 1407 00:53:45,870 --> 00:53:44,109 the hard part and that never even comes 1408 00:53:47,099 --> 00:53:45,880 with it you know I think that's that's 1409 00:53:49,709 --> 00:53:47,109 the tough part and then getting it out 1410 00:53:51,150 --> 00:53:49,719 there and hopefully people like it but 1411 00:53:53,219 --> 00:53:51,160 yeah I mean there's a few stores I kind 1412 00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:53,229 of I'm trying to get for punk rock ethos 1413 00:53:57,359 --> 00:53:55,690 calm it's it's I want to give the mics 1414 00:53:59,459 --> 00:53:57,369 up who knows what we're going to be able 1415 00:54:01,920 --> 00:53:59,469 to do but it's people that really have 1416 00:54:03,269 --> 00:54:01,930 flew under the radar in terms of 1417 00:54:05,249 --> 00:54:03,279 research that I think are interesting 1418 00:54:07,319 --> 00:54:05,259 because it our background and it may not 1419 00:54:08,809 --> 00:54:07,329 even amount to anything but that's maybe 1420 00:54:11,249 --> 00:54:08,819 something coming soon 1421 00:54:13,170 --> 00:54:11,259 but yeah I said you know right now I 1422 00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:13,180 talked about this yesterday that you 1423 00:54:17,969 --> 00:54:15,729 know we're in the golden days of UFOs in 1424 00:54:19,979 --> 00:54:17,979 terms of being how mainstream media 1425 00:54:21,209 --> 00:54:19,989 covers it and you know a lot of these 1426 00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:21,219 mainstream outlets see these big 1427 00:54:24,599 --> 00:54:22,569 journalists are doing a lot of that the 1428 00:54:25,979 --> 00:54:24,609 heavy lifting you know at the same time 1429 00:54:28,140 --> 00:54:25,989 you know we have a lot of a lot of us 1430 00:54:30,569 --> 00:54:28,150 and a lot of UFO journalists a lot of 1431 00:54:33,029 --> 00:54:30,579 UFO advocates social media you know 1432 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:33,039 that's a push as well so it's like it's 1433 00:54:36,299 --> 00:54:34,690 really you know it's coming from a lot 1434 00:54:38,609 --> 00:54:36,309 of different angles it's coming from the 1435 00:54:39,930 --> 00:54:38,619 underground and it's coming from the 1436 00:54:41,339 --> 00:54:39,940 mainstream so I think it's really cool 1437 00:54:43,259 --> 00:54:41,349 yeah it's a good time you know stuff 1438 00:54:44,579 --> 00:54:43,269 because there's just a lot of content to 1439 00:54:47,279 --> 00:54:44,589 digest you know there's there's so many 1440 00:54:49,289 --> 00:54:47,289 TV shows and so many podcast and there's 1441 00:54:51,779 --> 00:54:49,299 so many websites and they're all great 1442 00:54:53,729 --> 00:54:51,789 I mean Jason's out here right now and 1443 00:54:55,979 --> 00:54:53,739 you're JC's websites amazing he pushes 1444 00:55:02,219 --> 00:54:55,989 us so much content every day a rope on a 1445 00:55:04,859 --> 00:55:02,229 TV say honey no you know I say there's 1446 00:55:06,359 --> 00:55:04,869 this there's so much you know sometimes 1447 00:55:08,789 --> 00:55:06,369 great people doing great work whether 1448 00:55:09,250 --> 00:55:08,799 it's on you know the blogosphere social 1449 00:55:12,050 --> 00:55:09,260 media 1450 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:12,060 citizen journalists you know or you know 1451 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:13,650 if it's the larger epaulets do there's a 1452 00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:15,450 lot of work to be done you know that's 1453 00:55:18,170 --> 00:55:16,650 not even counting you know what to the 1454 00:55:19,550 --> 00:55:18,180 stars are doing and these are other 1455 00:55:21,620 --> 00:55:19,560 small organizations that are kind of 1456 00:55:23,750 --> 00:55:21,630 coming up - you know you IPX and other 1457 00:55:24,950 --> 00:55:23,760 ones so aside it's cool it's kind of 1458 00:55:27,140 --> 00:55:24,960 like this little trickle you know it's 1459 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:27,150 like something they talk about in your 1460 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:28,890 comic books I get Batman Begins they 1461 00:55:33,410 --> 00:55:31,290 talk about acceleration or the idea that 1462 00:55:36,410 --> 00:55:33,420 you know Batman comes and then you know 1463 00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:36,420 that the villains are amplifying their 1464 00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:37,650 game and you're kind of singing into 1465 00:55:43,370 --> 00:55:39,090 UFOs - you know you're kind of seeing 1466 00:55:45,260 --> 00:55:43,380 how everyone's kind of revving up yeah 1467 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:45,270 for whatever whatever is coming I'm just 1468 00:55:50,990 --> 00:55:47,130 pushing pushing it forward a little bit 1469 00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:51,000 yeah yeah it's a very passionate field 1470 00:55:54,260 --> 00:55:51,570 to be in 1471 00:55:56,990 --> 00:55:54,270 I mean you have something like UFO 1472 00:55:58,880 --> 00:55:57,000 Twitter being a thing now where like we 1473 00:56:01,520 --> 00:55:58,890 never dreamed that we'd see the day 1474 00:56:03,770 --> 00:56:01,530 where there be UFO Twitter it's like 1475 00:56:06,410 --> 00:56:03,780 just an amalgamation of everyone 1476 00:56:08,750 --> 00:56:06,420 interested in the topic having really 1477 00:56:10,790 --> 00:56:08,760 good discussions for the most part I 1478 00:56:13,460 --> 00:56:10,800 mean like other parts of Twitter it's 1479 00:56:15,849 --> 00:56:13,470 not always the best but um like you 1480 00:56:18,770 --> 00:56:15,859 mentioned you've got civilian 1481 00:56:21,500 --> 00:56:18,780 researchers writing some of the most 1482 00:56:25,270 --> 00:56:21,510 amazing articles from mainstream outlets 1483 00:56:28,190 --> 00:56:25,280 we're not talking about people hired by 1484 00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:28,200 Popular Mechanics or vice or New York 1485 00:56:33,109 --> 00:56:30,090 Times we're talking about citizen 1486 00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:33,119 journalists writing such quality 1487 00:56:39,380 --> 00:56:35,010 material that it's being published by 1488 00:56:41,930 --> 00:56:39,390 these you know very noted journalistic 1489 00:56:44,030 --> 00:56:41,940 avenues so I think you're right I think 1490 00:56:46,700 --> 00:56:44,040 it's an exciting time to be in this 1491 00:56:50,900 --> 00:56:46,710 field it's an exciting time in general 1492 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:50,910 for UFOs and I I can't wait to see where 1493 00:56:55,940 --> 00:56:53,490 it heads next but um before we go Mike 1494 00:56:58,340 --> 00:56:55,950 you got to tell me what is your 1495 00:57:02,720 --> 00:56:58,350 connection with pop soap what is this 1496 00:57:06,470 --> 00:57:02,730 man so I was thinking about unique ways 1497 00:57:08,750 --> 00:57:06,480 I mean hugging your photo strange it's a 1498 00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:08,760 small brand I guess you know whatever 1499 00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:11,250 you want to call it but I have a friend 1500 00:57:17,990 --> 00:57:15,530 of mine and used to they do really cool 1501 00:57:20,210 --> 00:57:18,000 vegan health products like soap and body 1502 00:57:21,950 --> 00:57:20,220 washes and it's all pop-culture themed 1503 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:21,960 video like a Star Wars bar they do a 1504 00:57:26,460 --> 00:57:22,930 Harry Potter 1505 00:57:28,170 --> 00:57:26,470 they do Halloween bars and there's a 1506 00:57:30,599 --> 00:57:28,180 really really good people too you know 1507 00:57:31,789 --> 00:57:30,609 they work seven days a week putting out 1508 00:57:34,829 --> 00:57:31,799 the product they're at farmers markets 1509 00:57:36,329 --> 00:57:34,839 there there are conventions all 1510 00:57:38,099 --> 00:57:36,339 throughout the United States you know 1511 00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:38,109 selling their stuff and they're good 1512 00:57:41,789 --> 00:57:39,520 people and they have a great product 1513 00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:41,799 good people I pitched you know hey you 1514 00:57:44,940 --> 00:57:43,210 want to do a collaboration they're all 1515 00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:44,950 totally down because they never had an 1516 00:57:49,500 --> 00:57:48,130 even space or alien beam so I basically 1517 00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:49,510 told what the books about and came up 1518 00:57:53,339 --> 00:57:50,770 with this bar that kind of looks like 1519 00:57:55,289 --> 00:57:53,349 the universe as like some pink and like 1520 00:57:57,380 --> 00:57:55,299 gray squirrels in it's called cosmic 1521 00:57:59,160 --> 00:57:57,390 cleanse so that's just a little 1522 00:58:00,690 --> 00:57:59,170 cross-promotional thing we're doing is I 1523 00:58:03,359 --> 00:58:00,700 know you know they reach a lot of people 1524 00:58:05,130 --> 00:58:03,369 and on the label there's just gonna be 1525 00:58:06,930 --> 00:58:05,140 kind of a hey go read the book too and 1526 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:06,940 there's a little something you know that 1527 00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:08,170 kind of help cross promote I think 1528 00:58:11,130 --> 00:58:09,250 that's kind of cool when you can do that 1529 00:58:12,510 --> 00:58:11,140 especially when it's like friends and 1530 00:58:14,730 --> 00:58:12,520 those people that you believe in the 1531 00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:14,740 product and what they're doing as well 1532 00:58:17,190 --> 00:58:16,210 so I think that's really cool is cooling 1533 00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:17,200 the house I guess so 1534 00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:20,770 he's being so base after yeah loosely a 1535 00:58:25,980 --> 00:58:23,650 set for the book absolutely and like you 1536 00:58:28,170 --> 00:58:25,990 said like writing the book is just half 1537 00:58:31,109 --> 00:58:28,180 the journey marketing it and doing the 1538 00:58:33,210 --> 00:58:31,119 business side after is a thing on its 1539 00:58:35,940 --> 00:58:33,220 own so I definitely commend you for like 1540 00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:35,950 thinking of thinking outside the box and 1541 00:58:41,309 --> 00:58:39,250 how to get your your message out there 1542 00:58:42,690 --> 00:58:41,319 and I think that's really cool 1543 00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:42,700 in terms of thinking outside the box 1544 00:58:47,430 --> 00:58:45,130 you're working with a new publisher with 1545 00:58:49,170 --> 00:58:47,440 stranger than fiction so what was it 1546 00:58:51,809 --> 00:58:49,180 like working with beyond the fray 1547 00:58:54,690 --> 00:58:51,819 publishing and yeah yeah are you excited 1548 00:58:56,430 --> 00:58:54,700 to be working with these guys yeah so as 1549 00:58:59,339 --> 00:58:56,440 soon as they announced a Shannon 1550 00:59:02,670 --> 00:58:59,349 announced that her and Jeff we're doing 1551 00:59:04,109 --> 00:59:02,680 their own book company I was like all 1552 00:59:05,910 --> 00:59:04,119 this stuff so cool and then it seems I 1553 00:59:08,609 --> 00:59:05,920 read the book be beyond the fray big for 1554 00:59:10,349 --> 00:59:08,619 like man this is perfect and I was like 1555 00:59:13,140 --> 00:59:10,359 I hope they like me I mean I know I know 1556 00:59:14,430 --> 00:59:13,150 Shannon I hope they like the book I said 1557 00:59:16,109 --> 00:59:14,440 I said them when I was working on and 1558 00:59:18,029 --> 00:59:16,119 there's part of me that was confident 1559 00:59:19,620 --> 00:59:18,039 I'm like you know this is good and this 1560 00:59:23,250 --> 00:59:19,630 is probably unlike anything that they 1561 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:23,260 happen in the you know in the works but 1562 00:59:26,670 --> 00:59:25,450 you know you never know you know you 1563 00:59:28,650 --> 00:59:26,680 never know if it's gonna be a fit or not 1564 00:59:30,809 --> 00:59:28,660 and I was ecstatic when they said they 1565 00:59:32,819 --> 00:59:30,819 wanted to put out the book and you know 1566 00:59:33,809 --> 00:59:32,829 you write that everyone they've signed 1567 00:59:36,299 --> 00:59:33,819 and you 1568 00:59:38,189 --> 00:59:36,309 you're gonna be involved your next book 1569 00:59:39,809 --> 00:59:38,199 as well so I think I said this to you 1570 00:59:41,130 --> 00:59:39,819 when I found out you you were putting a 1571 00:59:44,900 --> 00:59:41,140 book out for them tears like madness is 1572 00:59:47,189 --> 00:59:44,910 like Cash Money Records weird right now 1573 00:59:49,890 --> 00:59:47,199 but not like you know they work really 1574 00:59:52,799 --> 00:59:49,900 closely you know with the authors and 1575 00:59:53,999 --> 00:59:52,809 they have integrity and yeah I mean 1576 00:59:55,589 --> 00:59:54,009 they're really small operation in the 1577 00:59:56,849 --> 00:59:55,599 fact that they're churning out books 1578 00:59:59,489 --> 00:59:56,859 like every other week they're announcing 1579 01:00:01,380 --> 00:59:59,499 a new author in a new book and it's 1580 01:00:03,749 --> 01:00:01,390 really impressive because it's not easy 1581 01:00:05,549 --> 01:00:03,759 to do and I know the work that Jeff does 1582 01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:05,559 and Shannon does it's a lot it's a lot 1583 01:00:10,049 --> 01:00:08,650 of work so I'm really stoked for the for 1584 01:00:11,910 --> 01:00:10,059 this to be the home of the book and I 1585 01:00:14,069 --> 01:00:11,920 know it's gonna get the proper attention 1586 01:00:15,630 --> 01:00:14,079 it deserves and you know it feels like a 1587 01:00:18,299 --> 01:00:15,640 little family which is cool it's always 1588 01:00:22,380 --> 01:00:18,309 cool to have that you know that 1589 01:00:24,029 --> 01:00:22,390 community yeah yeah yeah they're very 1590 01:00:26,459 --> 01:00:24,039 supportive and I think you're right I 1591 01:00:29,099 --> 01:00:26,469 think they have the best of intentions 1592 01:00:30,989 --> 01:00:29,109 when it comes to their authors and if 1593 01:00:32,249 --> 01:00:30,999 anyone wants to go look at everything 1594 01:00:35,009 --> 01:00:32,259 else they got over there right now 1595 01:00:38,670 --> 01:00:35,019 it's beyond the fray publishing dot-com 1596 01:00:41,719 --> 01:00:38,680 Mike's book is dropping Tuesday June 1597 01:00:46,079 --> 01:00:41,729 16th where can we find the book like 1598 01:00:48,390 --> 01:00:46,089 amazon and barnesandnoble.com print any 1599 01:00:49,890 --> 01:00:48,400 book and i believe eventually they're 1600 01:00:52,999 --> 01:00:49,900 working on getting their titles all 1601 01:00:55,349 --> 01:00:53,009 their titles audiobooks eventually 1602 01:00:57,779 --> 01:00:55,359 they're doing an ebay just did the audio 1603 01:00:58,650 --> 01:00:57,789 for beyond the for a bigfoot but that's 1604 01:01:00,569 --> 01:00:58,660 something i don't even think are 1605 01:01:02,549 --> 01:01:00,579 impossible when i first had the meeting 1606 01:01:03,689 --> 01:01:02,559 with the oh yeah this is something we're 1607 01:01:05,609 --> 01:01:03,699 doing oh that's really cool because 1608 01:01:06,779 --> 01:01:05,619 somebody actually asked about that when 1609 01:01:08,279 --> 01:01:06,789 i announced the book was coming out 1610 01:01:10,559 --> 01:01:08,289 there is it going to be an audiobook too 1611 01:01:12,870 --> 01:01:10,569 so that's really cool but yeah just that 1612 01:01:15,359 --> 01:01:12,880 you know Barnes Noble and Amazon calm 1613 01:01:16,620 --> 01:01:15,369 which is basically you know a lot of 1614 01:01:17,910 --> 01:01:16,630 smaller publishers that's how they go 1615 01:01:20,009 --> 01:01:17,920 it's basically people are there books 1616 01:01:22,079 --> 01:01:20,019 online anyway you know it's hard really 1617 01:01:24,359 --> 01:01:22,089 hard to get physically in stores unless 1618 01:01:26,249 --> 01:01:24,369 you're a major publisher that so many of 1619 01:01:29,039 --> 01:01:26,259 these smaller book companies I think are 1620 01:01:30,569 --> 01:01:29,049 doing great work and putting out some of 1621 01:01:33,599 --> 01:01:30,579 the best stuff out there I mean you look 1622 01:01:37,229 --> 01:01:33,609 at what Jeff has put out on his own like 1623 01:01:40,849 --> 01:01:37,239 he's a he's a best-selling author as 1624 01:01:44,009 --> 01:01:40,859 well so it's very impressive to see the 1625 01:01:45,839 --> 01:01:44,019 the range you know with Rudolf Barnes 1626 01:01:46,890 --> 01:01:45,849 and Noble and Amazon that smaller 1627 01:01:48,930 --> 01:01:46,900 publishing companies 1628 01:01:50,250 --> 01:01:48,940 you know smaller authors like us that 1629 01:01:53,670 --> 01:01:50,260 you know we can reach such a large 1630 01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:53,680 audience of people oh yeah that's a good 1631 01:01:57,870 --> 01:01:56,170 point man yeah I mean I think a lot of 1632 01:02:00,450 --> 01:01:57,880 people will get worried about Amazon 1633 01:02:02,789 --> 01:02:00,460 taking over everything and Spotify 1634 01:02:05,069 --> 01:02:02,799 taking over the entire pod casting 1635 01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:05,079 platform but you know there will always 1636 01:02:09,510 --> 01:02:07,210 be independents out there and I think 1637 01:02:12,990 --> 01:02:09,520 that's where you get the true honest 1638 01:02:15,750 --> 01:02:13,000 stuff unfiltered so I got a thank you 1639 01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:15,760 for coming on today Mike the book was 1640 01:02:20,370 --> 01:02:18,160 awesome and I can't wait to dive deeper 1641 01:02:23,190 --> 01:02:20,380 into it again the book is stranger than 1642 01:02:24,870 --> 01:02:23,200 fiction this has been Mike Demonte Mike 1643 01:02:26,910 --> 01:02:24,880 thank you for joining me on somewhere in 1644 01:02:28,380 --> 01:02:26,920 this guy's thank you for I for at me so 1645 01:02:29,819 --> 01:02:28,390 much once it's always good to the eye 1646 01:02:31,289 --> 01:02:29,829 and just talk to you in general because 1647 01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:31,299 you know we don't live in the same stage 1648 01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:34,690 so you know yeah you know it's always 1649 01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:36,970 cool to connect and stuff so thank you 1650 01:02:39,740 --> 01:02:38,410 so much and I know your audience is 1651 01:02:42,779 --> 01:02:39,750 great as well I think you have such a 1652 01:02:45,029 --> 01:02:42,789 great platform and you said you have a 1653 01:02:46,559 --> 01:02:45,039 really awesome oil on it's not just your 1654 01:02:48,539 --> 01:02:46,569 friends a mutual friends we know but 1655 01:02:49,829 --> 01:02:48,549 just in general so it's really good to 1656 01:02:52,769 --> 01:02:49,839 kind of reach out so that your audience 1657 01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:52,779 and everything you do so thank you thank 1658 01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:54,970 you they truly are the best and I know